Author Topic: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM  (Read 8037 times)

Offline GTR

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Offline Dan

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 01:02:02 PM »
LOL
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline aygart

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 01:18:35 PM »
If they can make significant inroads into amex's high end market then it really was well worth it over the long term
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yammer

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2017, 01:23:15 PM »
If they can make significant inroads into amex's high end market then it really was well worth it over the long term
That's what he meant...

Offline aygart

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 01:27:44 PM »
That's what he meant...
I understand that
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Redbull3

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 01:34:01 PM »
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/18/jamie-dimon-i-wish-chase-sapphire-reserve-cost-jpmorgan-more-money.html

I'll double down if you let me sir.
Very interesting but don't be quick to assume that he's wrong. There's probably a lot of good accounts in there. 5/24 kept many churners away and those who slipped through with some CPC shtick or whatever probably only got 1 of them iinm. At least it's not like Citi with the 100k AA execs which were approving churners left and right to open multiple of the same product.

Offline nobiggy

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 01:35:31 PM »
At least it's not like Citi with the 100k AA execs which were approving churners left and right to open multiple of the same product.
The good old days!

Offline Freddie

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 01:42:34 PM »
Very interesting but don't be quick to assume that he's wrong. There's probably a lot of good accounts in there. 5/24 kept many churners away and those who slipped through with some CPC shtick or whatever probably only got 1 of them iinm. At least it's not like Citi with the 100k AA execs which were approving churners left and right to open multiple of the same product.

I have no proof to back this up but I really believe that churners represent a negligible amount of accounts. I'm not saying it doesn't make any difference to the banks (clearly it does, hence 5/24 rule with Chase and once in a lifetime rule with Amex) but I think that our view of how vast and widespread churning is has been warped. For every one of us, there are a hundred thousand people who will make monthly interest payments on cards that they never hit the minimum spend on.

Offline Mountain Man

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 01:50:52 PM »
Lol was about to post the same thing. I hope that works when I call recon again.
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 01:50:57 PM »
I have no proof to back this up but I really believe that churners represent a negligible amount of accounts. I'm not saying it doesn't make any difference to the banks (clearly it does, hence 5/24 rule with Chase and once in a lifetime rule with Amex) but I think that our view of how vast and widespread churning is has been warped. For every one of us, there are a hundred thousand people who will make monthly interest payments on cards that they never hit the minimum spend on.
There's truth to your post but churners aren't negligible hence all the rule tightening and the ratio isn't 100,000 to 1. And a $450 AF product would have even less revenue coming from interest.
For reserve to be profitable at 100k, they need lots of accounts to keep the card for several years paying the fee, with huge levels of spend, not redeem UR properly, and good amounts of breakage on the $300 travel credit. And they'll get that.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2017, 01:52:00 PM »
I have no proof to back this up but I really believe that churners represent a negligible amount of accounts. I'm not saying it doesn't make any difference to the banks (clearly it does, hence 5/24 rule with Chase and once in a lifetime rule with Amex) but I think that our view of how vast and widespread churning is has been warped. For every one of us, there are a hundred thousand people who will make monthly interest payments on cards that they never hit the minimum spend on.
So you are saying banks are profitable. Who would of thunk :P
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Offline Freddie

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2017, 01:53:51 PM »
So you are saying banks are profitable. Who would of thunk :P

If I had the capital, I'd start one myself. I'd gladly be on the other end of this game!

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2017, 07:22:36 PM »
If I had the capital, I'd start one myself. I'd gladly be on the other end of this game!
where you can lend $14 for very $1 in capital that you have, of course you would. Lend $14 at 3% for every $1 that costs you 0%.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2017, 07:36:20 PM »
where you can lend $14 for very $1 in capital that you have, of course you would. Lend $14 at 3% for every $1 that costs you 0%.
Fractional reserve banking made super profitable (in order to rescue the banks) by interest rate suppression, killing savers (and creating lots of problems for insurance companies and pensions).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2017, 12:27:51 PM »
Fractional reserve banking made super profitable (in order to rescue the banks) by interest rate suppression, killing savers (and creating lots of problems for insurance companies and pensions).
That has been the story of the banks since at least the late 80's. It's always perplexing to me how a bank can fail. Ther emust be so many bad loans it has to be criminal. Which is why the lack of criminal prosecutions in the last financial crisis is astonishing.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2017, 01:51:08 PM »
That has been the story of the banks since at least the late 80's. It's always perplexing to me how a bank can fail. Ther emust be so many bad loans it has to be criminal. Which is why the lack of criminal prosecutions in the last financial crisis is astonishing.

If
where you can lend $14 for very $1 in capital that you have, of course you would. Lend $14 at 3% for every $1 that costs you 0%.

That means that for every $1 lent, the bank borrowed about $0.93.

Loans are assets on the bank balance sheet, while deposits are liabilities (it's not the bank's money, they owe it to the depositors - on demand).

So a bank has to take a haircut of more than 7% on their loans, they are insolvent, as they don't have enough assets to cover their liabilities!

Do you know anyone that settled debts with banks for less than owed? In most such cases the banks took haircuts much larger than 7%.

The only reason that we didn't see more banks failing during the crisis, was because banks were allowed to suspend "mark-to-market" on their assets, and just make up numbers as to what their assets (loans on their book) are worth.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2017, 03:19:06 PM »
If
That means that for every $1 lent, the bank borrowed about $0.93.

Loans are assets on the bank balance sheet, while deposits are liabilities (it's not the bank's money, they owe it to the depositors - on demand).

So a bank has to take a haircut of more than 7% on their loans, they are insolvent, as they don't have enough assets to cover their liabilities!

Do you know anyone that settled debts with banks for less than owed? In most such cases the banks took haircuts much larger than 7%.

The only reason that we didn't see more banks failing during the crisis, was because banks were allowed to suspend "mark-to-market" on their assets, and just make up numbers as to what their assets (loans on their book) are worth.
for every dollar in capital, not deposits, they can lend 14. Thats 14 x 3% that they borrowed from the Fed at 0% or from depositors at <1%. Thats not anywhere near 7%. Thats 42%, less the cost of their borrowed funds. The banks that took write-offs and still pursued foreclosure etc and are now reaping the benefits of the real estate boom do not deserve any sympathy from me or you.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2017, 03:16:47 AM »
for every dollar in capital, not deposits, they can lend 14. Thats 14 x 3% that they borrowed from the Fed at 0% or from depositors at <1%. Thats not anywhere near 7%. Thats 42%, less the cost of their borrowed funds. The banks that took write-offs and still pursued foreclosure etc and are now reaping the benefits of the real estate boom do not deserve any sympathy from me or you.
Don't get me wrong. I have no sympathy for the bankers. IMHO part of the BHO legacy is that none of the bankers, auditors, or rating agency personnel got to serve some serious jail sentences.

As for your calculations, they are true as long as the loans are all performing. But as we all know, there are always defaults there, and the banks don't always collect all the money owed to them. Of your hypothetical 42% gross profit, the bank has to cover its expenses (including bonuses) and shareholders will expect a dividend.

Now, what happens to loan losses? At first, the bank will keep on paying bonuses and dividends. If losses are too great, they will cut those. But remember that leverage works both ways. If a bank has $100 in capital, and made $1,400 in loans. Then if 7% of those loans need to be written off, that's a $98 write off, wiping away almost all of the capital.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline JTZ

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2017, 08:03:54 AM »
Don't get me wrong. I have no sympathy for the bankers. IMHO part of the BHO legacy is that none of the bankers, auditors, or rating agency personnel got to serve some serious jail sentences.
Some how it is always his fault except when he turns around the market, unemployment, housing market among other things.
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Offline Mordyk

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Re: Jamie Dimon wishes Sapphire Reserve cost JPM $400MM
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2017, 08:10:54 AM »
If I had the capital, I'd start one myself. I'd gladly be on the other end of this game!
There are actually many opportunities to do so! Many small banks start out that you can invest as much capital as you want (minimal) and the returns are pretty high.
#TYH