Author Topic: Keeping Up With The Kushners  (Read 225967 times)

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2017, 08:17:35 PM »
Is someone claiming it was invalid? How about her husband. It seems they are following the same Rabbis advice. Does that make her husband invalid?  :)
Born a Jew, always a Jew.
So he's Jewish even if he disregards all 613.
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2017, 08:19:19 PM »
The question is did you actually intend to accept the 613 at the time of the conversion?
Is a person that converts required to fully understand all 613 commandments? Just watching the discussion about some of these things that would seem impossible. Also if a Rabbi gives her permission to do certain things over Shabbos that wouldn't be a violation would it?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2017, 08:19:48 PM »
Born a Jew, always a Jew.
So he's Jewish even if he disregards all 613.
I set myself up for that.  :)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2017, 08:22:29 PM »


Also if a Rabbi gives her permission to do certain things over Shabbos that wouldn't be a violation would it?
A rabbi cannot give permission to do things that the Torah does not allow unless he has a valid reason.

I'm not who you think I am.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2017, 08:34:53 PM »
I thought you were required to accept converts as one of your own, no?
I just said you'd be as Jewish as she is if you do what she did.

Yes I am obligated to love and accept converts. I am also obligated to hate those who trample g-ds words.


Offline JTZ

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2017, 08:52:03 PM »
I am also obligated to hate those who trample g-ds words.
Didn't know that.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline aro123

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2017, 09:15:05 PM »
And if shes not a convert she didn't trample on g-ds words. So we are giving her benefit of the doubt.........however practically everyone accepts her as a legitimate convert

Online zh cohen

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2017, 09:23:02 PM »
Looks like the 10% was correct.  :P
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/us/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-sabbath.html?ribbon-ad-idx=3&rref=politics&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Politics&pgtype=article&_r=0

Can someone hook me up with their Rabbi? I am ready to take the plunge.  :)

http://www.uscj.org

I'm still sceptical about this story. Until I see a written tshuva, or an on the record comment in assuming the reporters are getting it wrong.

For example, I can understand if they got a heter to go (walk) to the ball, even though they will be causing the security guards to follow them in a car.

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2017, 09:30:28 PM »
And for all you know by them saying that the rabbi give them a heter to go in a car maybe it means  that the driver was opening the door for them and he did anything that is prohibited on Shabbos
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2017, 09:31:23 PM »
I think that JTZ's point is that if she is following the ruling of her rabbi it dues not show that her acceptance of mitzvos was deficient even if his ruling was incorrect.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online zh cohen

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2017, 09:32:49 PM »
I think that JTZ's point is that if she is following the ruling of her rabbi it dues not show that her acceptance of mitzvos was deficient even if his ruling was incorrect.

This is a very good point.

Online zh cohen

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2017, 09:34:20 PM »
And for all you know by them saying that the rabbi give them a heter to go in a car maybe it means  that the driver was opening the door for them and he did anything that is prohibited on Shabbos

That's a given, and still unlikely.

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2017, 09:37:01 PM »
Let's get this clear, we are dealing with amira l'akum, not a d'orayso.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline chinagel

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2017, 09:37:26 PM »
And if shes not a convert she didn't trample on g-ds words. So we are giving her benefit of the doubt.........however practically everyone accepts her as a legitimate convert
whos that

Offline aro123

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2017, 09:44:05 PM »
whos that
Find me someone mainstream who will say that R hershel Schacters geirus is not legitimate bidieved

Offline chinagel

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2017, 09:48:40 PM »
Find me someone mainstream who will say that R hershel Schacters geirus is not legitimate bidieved
i didnt say it isnt all im asking is who said its good? i didnt even know he was the one who did it, where did u get that from?

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2017, 10:09:34 PM »
Let's get this clear, we are dealing with amira l'akum, not a d'orayso.

And furthermore it's possible he/she didn't even ask but was told so there was no Amira.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2017, 10:18:09 PM »
Didn't know that.
. רמב"ם הלכות אבל פרק א' הלכה י 

כל הפורשין  מדרכי  צבור והם האנשים שפרקו עול המצות מעל צוארן ואין נכללין בכלל ישראל בעשיית  המצות ובכבוד המועדות וישיבת בתי כנסיות ובתי מדרשות אלא הרי הן כבני חורין לעצמן [כשאר  האומות] וכן האפיקורוסין [והמומרים] והמוסרין כל אלו אין מתאבלין עליהן, אלא אחיהם ושאר  קרוביהם לובשין לבנים ומתעטפים לבנים ואוכלים ושותים ושמחים שהרי אבדו שונאיו של הקב"ה,  ועליהם הכתוב אומר הלא משנאיך ה' אשנא. 


Offline ExGingi

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2017, 10:26:43 PM »
Who will be the first to post a TR which includes this? And what's the best way to book? Chase UR?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2017, 10:27:38 PM »
And furthermore it's possible he/she didn't even ask but was told so there was no Amira.
It is also forbidden to have a non Jew do melachos for you, even without amirah.

Regardless, there were plenty of other issurim involved besides the car.

I'm just not even sure why we have to be splitting hairs over which halacha was violated or not. The fact is that Jared and Ivanka are culturally orthodox to a certain extent. I don't believe they publicly have ever claimed to keep halacha.
They obviously do participate in Shabbat and some degree of kosher. But that's about it.