Author Topic: Keeping Up With The Kushners  (Read 226048 times)

Offline JTZ

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #200 on: January 23, 2017, 05:47:38 PM »
That's for the converting beis din to decide. And if some orthodox circles don't accept that beis din as legitimate they will not accept anyone that converted through them as Jewish.
So basically everyone decides on their own?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Dan

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #201 on: January 23, 2017, 05:51:16 PM »
Has anyone asked Rabbi Schwartz from the CRC if she's Jewish? He's a genius when it comes to geirus.
Maybe we have someone from Chicago here who can ask ;D
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #202 on: January 23, 2017, 05:53:05 PM »
Maybe we have someone from Chicago here who can ask ;D
As2 and he speaks the language.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline David Smith

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #203 on: January 23, 2017, 05:54:40 PM »
So lets assume it was legit. If now she violated all 613 commandments she would still be a Jew, correct?
Yes
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline thaber

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #204 on: January 23, 2017, 05:58:57 PM »
TY! Any chance to write this so I can understand it?
Basically,  there's a  standard a convert is required to wholeheartedly accept.  That is determined by the administering court. If they set the bar real low that's incorrect,  but the conversion is still valid

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #205 on: January 23, 2017, 06:00:12 PM »
Basically,  there's a  standard a convert is required to wholeheartedly accept.  That is determined by the administering court. If they set the bar real low that's incorrect,  but the conversion is still valid
so if i convert s/o by telling him judaism only requires a beard that would be a good conversion?!

Offline JTZ

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #206 on: January 23, 2017, 06:01:16 PM »
Yes
So lets see if I have this right.
1 - She is either a Jew or not. No half way on this.
2 - If she is not a Jew then what she does over Shabbos doesn't matter.
3 - If she is a Jew then no matter what she did over Shabbos does not change the fact she is a Jew.

So all this about what she did or didn't do over Shabbos is a smokescreen. This is really about if you accept her conversion as legit.

"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline David Smith

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #207 on: January 23, 2017, 06:02:31 PM »
So lets see if I have this right.
1 - She is either a Jew or not. No half way on this.
2 - If she is not a Jew then what she does over Shabbos doesn't matter.
3 - If she is a Jew then no matter what she did over Shabbos does not change the fact she is a Jew.

So all this about what she did or didn't do over Shabbos is a smokescreen. This is really about if you accept her conversion as legit.
Yes. The only reason people are focusing on it is that it may be indicative whether she was Jewish from the start.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline Dan

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #208 on: January 23, 2017, 06:04:40 PM »
Basically,  there's a  standard a convert is required to wholeheartedly accept.  That is determined by the administering court. If they set the bar real low that's incorrect,  but the conversion is still valid
That's highly debatable.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #209 on: January 23, 2017, 06:05:12 PM »
Yes. The only reason people are focusing on it is that it may be indicative whether she was Jewish from the start.
The only thing that matters is what she believed at time of conversion, correct? If she changes after that I thought you said that has no effect on the legitimacy of the conversion.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline thaber

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #210 on: January 23, 2017, 06:06:45 PM »
That's highly debatable.
That's why we're here. 

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #211 on: January 23, 2017, 06:07:17 PM »
The only thing that matters is what she accepted to do at time of conversion, correct? If she changes after that has no effect on the legitimacy of the conversion.
FTFY

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #212 on: January 23, 2017, 06:07:34 PM »
So lets assume it was legit. If now she violated all 613 commandments she would still be a Jew, correct?
correct
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline as2

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #213 on: January 23, 2017, 06:07:45 PM »
As2 and he speaks the language.
I do see him on occasion and may very well ask next time. You're welcome to join me, we can have a conversion DO
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #214 on: January 23, 2017, 06:09:07 PM »
I do see him on occasion and may very well ask next time. You're welcome to join me, we can have a conversion DO
Do it a shallots and you'll get a lot more people to come
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline thaber

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #215 on: January 23, 2017, 06:10:18 PM »
so if i convert s/o by telling him judaism only requires a beard that would be a good conversion?!
There's a minimum standard. I'm working from memory,  but there's a tosfos in menachos (I think) a lot of this part of hilchos geirus is based on. I haven't learned this for a while,  and Dan is correct,  it's all very debatable.

Offline Boruch999

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #216 on: January 23, 2017, 06:10:53 PM »
So lets see if I have this right.
1 - She is either a Jew or not. No half way on this.
2 - If she is not a Jew then what she does over Shabbos doesn't matter.
3 - If she is a Jew then no matter what she did over Shabbos does not change the fact she is a Jew.

So all this about what she did or didn't do over Shabbos is a smokescreen. This is really about if you accept her conversion as legit.

Close.  If the rabbi who allegedly gave them an unwarranted exemption in fact did so, and he is the same rabbi who converted her, there is room to claim that the rabbi who converted her is not qualified to administrate conversions.  The article I linked earlier seems to convincingly put such claims to rest.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #217 on: January 23, 2017, 06:11:28 PM »
Do it a shallots and you'll get a lot more people to come
Don't want more people. With just the two of them I will get 4 different answers.  :P
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #218 on: January 23, 2017, 06:12:15 PM »
The article I linked earlier seems to convincingly put such claims to rest.
That is the basis for my questions.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #219 on: January 23, 2017, 06:14:21 PM »
Don't want more people. With just the two of them I will get 4 different answers.  :P
Lol
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy