Keeping Up With The Kushners

[PlatinumGuy]

is there a mekor for that

זכור את יום השבת לקדשו

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Traveling in a car or an airplane on the Sabbath when Halacha allows for it is not called  not observing the Sabbath.  Most here may question the Halachik dispensation they rely on but it is difficult to say catagorically that the don;t always observe the Sabbath.

Example:  When an Orthodox Jew, who is under normal circumstances enjoined from driving his car, does so in order to save a life, he is certainly said to be observing the Sabbath.

My answer to this is the same as it was to the kosher switch. We all know how that turned out. 

[Yehuda57]

I confess, I didn't read the article beyond skimming a couple of lines, but is there a case of a media outlet parsing the religious observance of the children of any other president?  Since when is that fair game?

Maybe I'm being out of line, but weren't some right wing types branded as extremist nut job conspiracy theorists for not taking Obama at his word that he is a practicing Christian? Do Jews not get the same courtesy?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I confess, I didn't read the article beyond skimming a couple of lines, but is there a case of a media outlet parsing the religious observance of the children of any other president?  Since when is that fair game?

Maybe I'm being out of line, but weren't some right wing types branded as extremist nut job conspiracy theorists for not taking Obama at his word that he is a practicing Christian? Do Jews not get the same courtesy?

Children are not fair game. Adults that seem to be part of policy making are.

Obama is a practicing Christian. That's the same as saying I am a practicing Jew because I eat at Milts. 

Jews get the same hate as other religions. 

[zh cohen]

Children are not fair game. Adults that seem to be part of policy making are.

Obama is a practicing Christian. That's the same as saying I am a practicing Jew because I eat at Milts. 

Jews get the same hate as other religions. 

I think @Yehuda57's point isn't about children, it's about religion. Are there articles out there claiming that Nancy Pelosi isn't a "good Catholic" because she supports abortion?

[Yehuda57]

Children are not fair game. Adults that seem to be part of policy making are.

Obama is a practicing Christian. That's the same as saying I am a practicing Jew because I eat at Milts. 

Jews get the same hate as other religions. 

That's my point. Obama says "I'm a practicing Christian" and we are told to take him at his word. The kushners says "we're practicing Jews" and Politico gets into the details of their observance.

I took another glance at the article, and it is even worse. They make parallels to the the access Hollywood tape, saying they broke shabbos to deal with that, 1)tacitly implying a Rabbi gave them dispensation on the grounds that dealing with a sexual assault confession is somehow saving a life, 2) without any mention by the kushners of such dispensation being given, 3) without saying how they broke shabbos ("huddling up" is not a malacha, AFAIK).

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I think @Yehuda57's point isn't about children, it's about religion. Are there articles out there claiming that Nancy Pelosi isn't a "good Catholic" because she supports abortion?

I was just answering the questions asked.

As far as Pelosi is concerned I do not believe she supports abortion (could be wrong) but supports the right to choose as is the position of many Catholics.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

That's my point. Obama says "I'm a practicing Christian" and we are told to take him at his word. The kushners says "we're practicing Jews" and Politico gets into the details of their observance.

I took another glance at the article, and it is even worse. They make parallels to the the access Hollywood tape, saying they broke shabbos to deal with that, 1)tacitly implying a Rabbi gave them dispensation on the grounds that dealing with a sexual assault confession is somehow saving a life, 2) without any mention by the kushners of such dispensation being given, 3) without saying how they broke shabbos ("huddling up" is not a malacha, AFAIK).

If your point is that the media is biased then we agree.

[elit]

I took another glance at the article, and it is even worse. They make parallels to the the access Hollywood tape, saying they broke shabbos to deal with that, 1)tacitly implying a Rabbi gave them dispensation on the grounds that dealing with a sexual assault confession is somehow saving a life, 2) without any mention by the kushners of such dispensation being given, 3) without saying how they broke shabbos ("huddling up" is not a malacha, AFAIK).

exactly what I was thinking but the politico is not what disturbs me, it's the frum need who are so eager to jump on these things, when it is so easy to see how you can assess the situation in a more favorable light. which I believe is one of the 613 as well....

[Yehuda57]

If your point is that the media is biased then we agree.

I'd need to double check the forum rules, but I believe saying "we agree" on a Friday is a violation.

exactly what I was thinking but the politico is not what disturbs me, it's the frum need who are so eager to jump on these things, when it is so easy to see how you can assess the situation in a more favorable light. which I believe is one of the 613 as well....

Well, criticizing a media outlet is different to passing judgement on individuals for passing judgement on individuals. 

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I'd need to double check the forum rules, but I believe saying "we agree" on a Friday is a violation.

That's to get you to lower your guard down before I lower the BOOM! 

[Yehuda57]

That's to get you to lower your guard down before I lower the BOOM! 

Are you lowering a boom, or merely allowing me the choice of being boomed?

[jj1000]

@ChaimMoskowitz Just to be clear if a Jew is a Doctor for example and he gets called in for emergency surgery he has to do the Torah requires him to go on shabbos. Just making sure you understand the difference between a quasi-heter like the kosher switch, a real heter, and something that is actually halachikly required like breaking shabbos to save a life.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

@ChaimMoskowitz Just to be clear if a Jew is a Doctor for example and he gets called in for emergency surgery he has to do the Torah requires him to go on shabbos. Just making sure you understand the difference between a quasi-heter like the kosher switch, a real heter, and something that is actually halachikly required like breaking shabbos to save a life.

I think I have that part down and it makes sense. Here is the way I look at this. Trump is the doctor and Ivanka is going to watch.

[as2]

I think I have that part down and it makes sense. Here is the way I look at this. Trump is the doctor and Ivanka is going to watch.

Sounds right. Although in this case, Trump is a non factor

[skyguy918]

I think I have that part down and it makes sense. Here is the way I look at this. Trump is the doctor and Ivanka is going to watch.

As with anything one asks a Rabbi, the person asking formulates the question. I'm sure they didn't say, we're going to watch my father on this trip. I'm sure they painted themselves as indispensable, whether that's true or not. Depending on the relationship, it's not necessarily the Rabbi's place to tell them it's not allowed because you're not indispensable to the process. He may phrase it as, it's allowed if you are indispensable, etc.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

As with anything one asks a Rabbi, the person asking formulates the question. I'm sure they didn't say, we're going to watch my father on this trip. I'm sure they painted themselves as indispensable, whether that's true or not. Depending on the relationship, it's not necessarily the Rabbi's place to tell them it's not allowed because you're not indispensable to the process. He may phrase it as, it's allowed if you are indispensable, etc.

Not going to second guess any Rabbi but I am also standing by my Kosher switch statement.

[jj1000]

I think I have that part down and it makes sense. Here is the way I look at this. Trump is the doctor and Ivanka is going to watch.

Right. Ok. I am sure that many Rabbi's would agree with you. But then it comes down to the more grey are of like skyguy918 said of how you ask the question.

What if there are multiple nurses available but the Dr. works better with a specific nurse. If there is a 1% chance of the Dr. getting better results with that nurse there, probably a good chance that the Rabbi would also allow her to break shabbos. If US relations with Saudi Arabia would be even a little better or they are willing to share even a bit more intelligence for work more with Israel, if Ivanka and Jared are in attendance representing Jews in general I can see some Rabbis giving them a heter to go.

ETA: Think of a Rabbi deciding if a medical issue is life threatening, he will almost always rely on a Doctors opinion. But even Dr's will argue whether something is life threatening or not, so in many cases there are grey areas and how you ask makes a difference.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Even on a Friday I am not going to get dragged into this. You all make valid points but you are not teaching this old dog new tricks. Kosher Switch! 

[churnbabychurn]

Terrible chillul hashem and chillul shabbos.

We would be much better off if they didn't flaunt the "fact" that they are Jewish and frum.