Author Topic: Keeping Up With The Kushners  (Read 220772 times)

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 14955
  • Total likes: 2415
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #580 on: May 19, 2017, 04:28:33 AM »
is there a mekor for that

זכור את יום השבת לקדשו
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #581 on: May 19, 2017, 05:21:51 AM »
Traveling in a car or an airplane on the Sabbath when Halacha allows for it is not called  not observing the Sabbath.  Most here may question the Halachik dispensation they rely on but it is difficult to say catagorically that the don;t always observe the Sabbath.

Example:  When an Orthodox Jew, who is under normal circumstances enjoined from driving his car, does so in order to save a life, he is certainly said to be observing the Sabbath.
My answer to this is the same as it was to the kosher switch. We all know how that turned out.  :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4866
  • Total likes: 14577
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #582 on: May 19, 2017, 07:37:56 AM »
I confess, I didn't read the article beyond skimming a couple of lines, but is there a case of a media outlet parsing the religious observance of the children of any other president?  Since when is that fair game?

Maybe I'm being out of line, but weren't some right wing types branded as extremist nut job conspiracy theorists for not taking Obama at his word that he is a practicing Christian? Do Jews not get the same courtesy?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #583 on: May 19, 2017, 07:43:18 AM »
I confess, I didn't read the article beyond skimming a couple of lines, but is there a case of a media outlet parsing the religious observance of the children of any other president?  Since when is that fair game?

Maybe I'm being out of line, but weren't some right wing types branded as extremist nut job conspiracy theorists for not taking Obama at his word that he is a practicing Christian? Do Jews not get the same courtesy?
Children are not fair game. Adults that seem to be part of policy making are.

Obama is a practicing Christian. That's the same as saying I am a practicing Jew because I eat at Milts.  :)

Jews get the same hate as other religions.  ;)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1494
  • Total likes: 1663
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: 412
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #584 on: May 19, 2017, 08:10:16 AM »
Children are not fair game. Adults that seem to be part of policy making are.

Obama is a practicing Christian. That's the same as saying I am a practicing Jew because I eat at Milts.  :)

Jews get the same hate as other religions.  ;)

I think @Yehuda57's point isn't about children, it's about religion. Are there articles out there claiming that Nancy Pelosi isn't a "good Catholic" because she supports abortion?

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4866
  • Total likes: 14577
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #585 on: May 19, 2017, 08:27:42 AM »
Children are not fair game. Adults that seem to be part of policy making are.

Obama is a practicing Christian. That's the same as saying I am a practicing Jew because I eat at Milts.  :)

Jews get the same hate as other religions.  ;)
That's my point. Obama says "I'm a practicing Christian" and we are told to take him at his word. The kushners says "we're practicing Jews" and Politico gets into the details of their observance.

I took another glance at the article, and it is even worse. They make parallels to the the access Hollywood tape, saying they broke shabbos to deal with that, 1)tacitly implying a Rabbi gave them dispensation on the grounds that dealing with a sexual assault confession is somehow saving a life, 2) without any mention by the kushners of such dispensation being given, 3) without saying how they broke shabbos ("huddling up" is not a malacha, AFAIK).

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #586 on: May 19, 2017, 09:57:50 AM »
I think @Yehuda57's point isn't about children, it's about religion. Are there articles out there claiming that Nancy Pelosi isn't a "good Catholic" because she supports abortion?
I was just answering the questions asked.

As far as Pelosi is concerned I do not believe she supports abortion (could be wrong) but supports the right to choose as is the position of many Catholics.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #587 on: May 19, 2017, 10:00:20 AM »
That's my point. Obama says "I'm a practicing Christian" and we are told to take him at his word. The kushners says "we're practicing Jews" and Politico gets into the details of their observance.

I took another glance at the article, and it is even worse. They make parallels to the the access Hollywood tape, saying they broke shabbos to deal with that, 1)tacitly implying a Rabbi gave them dispensation on the grounds that dealing with a sexual assault confession is somehow saving a life, 2) without any mention by the kushners of such dispensation being given, 3) without saying how they broke shabbos ("huddling up" is not a malacha, AFAIK).
If your point is that the media is biased then we agree.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1349
  • Total likes: 117
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #588 on: May 19, 2017, 10:01:27 AM »



I took another glance at the article, and it is even worse. They make parallels to the the access Hollywood tape, saying they broke shabbos to deal with that, 1)tacitly implying a Rabbi gave them dispensation on the grounds that dealing with a sexual assault confession is somehow saving a life, 2) without any mention by the kushners of such dispensation being given, 3) without saying how they broke shabbos ("huddling up" is not a malacha, AFAIK).

exactly what I was thinking but the politico is not what disturbs me, it's the frum need who are so eager to jump on these things, when it is so easy to see how you can assess the situation in a more favorable light. which I believe is one of the 613 as well....

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4866
  • Total likes: 14577
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #589 on: May 19, 2017, 10:04:12 AM »
If your point is that the media is biased then we agree.

I'd need to double check the forum rules, but I believe saying "we agree" on a Friday is a violation.


exactly what I was thinking but the politico is not what disturbs me, it's the frum need who are so eager to jump on these things, when it is so easy to see how you can assess the situation in a more favorable light. which I believe is one of the 613 as well....

Well, criticizing a media outlet is different to passing judgement on individuals for passing judgement on individuals.  :D

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #590 on: May 19, 2017, 10:05:46 AM »
I'd need to double check the forum rules, but I believe saying "we agree" on a Friday is a violation.
That's to get you to lower your guard down before I lower the BOOM!  :P
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4866
  • Total likes: 14577
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #591 on: May 19, 2017, 10:17:34 AM »
That's to get you to lower your guard down before I lower the BOOM!  :P

Are you lowering a boom, or merely allowing me the choice of being boomed?

Offline jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 13443
  • Total likes: 6009
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 29367
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #592 on: May 19, 2017, 10:28:33 AM »
@ChaimMoskowitz Just to be clear if a Jew is a Doctor for example and he gets called in for emergency surgery he has to do the Torah requires him to go on shabbos. Just making sure you understand the difference between a quasi-heter like the kosher switch, a real heter, and something that is actually halachikly required like breaking shabbos to save a life.
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #593 on: May 19, 2017, 10:32:01 AM »
@ChaimMoskowitz Just to be clear if a Jew is a Doctor for example and he gets called in for emergency surgery he has to do the Torah requires him to go on shabbos. Just making sure you understand the difference between a quasi-heter like the kosher switch, a real heter, and something that is actually halachikly required like breaking shabbos to save a life.
I think I have that part down and it makes sense. Here is the way I look at this. Trump is the doctor and Ivanka is going to watch.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5671
  • Total likes: 917
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #594 on: May 19, 2017, 10:33:10 AM »
I think I have that part down and it makes sense. Here is the way I look at this. Trump is the doctor and Ivanka is going to watch.
Sounds right. Although in this case, Trump is a non factor
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Online skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 3801
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #595 on: May 19, 2017, 10:39:00 AM »
I think I have that part down and it makes sense. Here is the way I look at this. Trump is the doctor and Ivanka is going to watch.
As with anything one asks a Rabbi, the person asking formulates the question. I'm sure they didn't say, we're going to watch my father on this trip. I'm sure they painted themselves as indispensable, whether that's true or not. Depending on the relationship, it's not necessarily the Rabbi's place to tell them it's not allowed because you're not indispensable to the process. He may phrase it as, it's allowed if you are indispensable, etc.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #596 on: May 19, 2017, 10:42:53 AM »
As with anything one asks a Rabbi, the person asking formulates the question. I'm sure they didn't say, we're going to watch my father on this trip. I'm sure they painted themselves as indispensable, whether that's true or not. Depending on the relationship, it's not necessarily the Rabbi's place to tell them it's not allowed because you're not indispensable to the process. He may phrase it as, it's allowed if you are indispensable, etc.
Not going to second guess any Rabbi but I am also standing by my Kosher switch statement.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 13443
  • Total likes: 6009
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 29367
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #597 on: May 19, 2017, 10:43:03 AM »
I think I have that part down and it makes sense. Here is the way I look at this. Trump is the doctor and Ivanka is going to watch.
Right. Ok. I am sure that many Rabbi's would agree with you. But then it comes down to the more grey are of like skyguy918 said of how you ask the question.

What if there are multiple nurses available but the Dr. works better with a specific nurse. If there is a 1% chance of the Dr. getting better results with that nurse there, probably a good chance that the Rabbi would also allow her to break shabbos. If US relations with Saudi Arabia would be even a little better or they are willing to share even a bit more intelligence for work more with Israel, if Ivanka and Jared are in attendance representing Jews in general I can see some Rabbis giving them a heter to go.

ETA: Think of a Rabbi deciding if a medical issue is life threatening, he will almost always rely on a Doctors opinion. But even Dr's will argue whether something is life threatening or not, so in many cases there are grey areas and how you ask makes a difference.
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #598 on: May 19, 2017, 10:49:28 AM »
Even on a Friday I am not going to get dragged into this. You all make valid points but you are not teaching this old dog new tricks. Kosher Switch!  :P
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7355
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #599 on: May 19, 2017, 10:53:41 AM »
Terrible chillul hashem and chillul shabbos.

We would be much better off if they didn't flaunt the "fact" that they are Jewish and frum.