Author Topic: Keeping Up With The Kushners  (Read 225985 times)

Offline saw50st8

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #720 on: June 14, 2017, 09:59:46 AM »
I think what people accept as "frum" is pretty arbitrary. I'm not defending not practicing THM. I just don't think it's a marker that's actually used in the Orthodox community.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #721 on: June 14, 2017, 10:03:09 AM »
I think what people accept as "frum" is pretty arbitrary. I'm not defending not practicing THM. I just don't think it's a marker that's actually used in the Orthodox community.
I agree with this. It's something no one would ever know anyway so practically it doesn't make a difference.

And I also agree I think many more people don't observe TH than the average frum guy thinks. If someone has it there was an article going around about frum people dropping TH.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #722 on: June 14, 2017, 10:09:25 AM »
Actually, these definitions are discussed extensively by the poskim. There are quite a few categories of Jews - a mumar lehachis, a mumar leteavon, a mumar ledovor echod, a mechalel shabbos bepharhesia, a choiteh that we assume repented a tinok shenishba etc

These catagories of frumness have halachic implications in many areas.

Offline aygart

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #723 on: June 14, 2017, 10:10:52 AM »
The bare minimum is likely Shabbos, Mikvah, and Kosher.
If you keep those then most people will say you're frum.
Not necessarily arguing (yet) but what is this based on?

I remember seeing this from the Chofetz Chaim but don't remember where.
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Offline Dawie

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #724 on: June 14, 2017, 11:20:45 AM »


OOT the difference is where they daven on Rh and YK or what synagogue they are a member of
In South Africa for example  alot of the people consider themselves Orthodox yet keep absolutely nothing

Offline aygart

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #725 on: June 14, 2017, 11:28:42 AM »
OOT the difference is where they daven on Rh and YK or what synagogue they are a member of
In South Africa for example  alot of the people consider themselves Orthodox yet keep absolutely nothing
Do yopu consider someone frum for going to an orthodox shul on RH YK? I don't.
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #726 on: June 14, 2017, 11:32:01 AM »
Orthodox is a belief
Frum is a practice

You are Orthdox if you believe in Orthdox Judaism even if you don't practice it
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #727 on: June 14, 2017, 11:34:12 AM »
You are Orthdox if you believe in Orthdox Judaism even if you don't practice it
That makes sense.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Dawie

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #728 on: June 14, 2017, 11:38:55 AM »
Do yopu consider someone frum for going to an orthodox shul on RH YK? I don't.
they don't consider themselves frum either, they consider themselves Orthodox

Offline aygart

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #729 on: June 14, 2017, 11:40:20 AM »
they don't consider themselves frum either, they consider themselves Orthodox
In which case it does not have much relevance to the questions asked.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Dawie

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #730 on: June 14, 2017, 11:43:04 AM »
In which case it does not have much relevance to the questions asked.
True, but it explains why Jared considers himself Orthodox and not frum

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #731 on: June 14, 2017, 11:50:38 AM »
At worst, psik reisha d'lo nicha lei. Probably not psik reisha, just davar she'eino miskaven.
Believe it or not, the 'tshuva' from that conservative org deals with that:
Quote from: https://www.rabbinicalassembly.org/sites/default/files/public/halakhah/teshuvot/2011-2020/lubliner-recreation-sports-shabbat.pdf
Even if we do not restrict ball playing to courts and other hard surfaces, but extend its permissibility to fields, the sport of golf remains problematic. Brent Kelley, a golf writer and sports journalist for more than 20 years, explains, “ Most shots from the fairway with an iron will scrape off the top of the turf where the ball was resting. ‘Divot’ refers to both the turf that is scraped up, and the scarred area in the fairway where the turf had been.” Unlike the unintentional and irrelevant detachment of grass in, say, a game of soccer, divot-making is seen by many golfers as essential to good technique. In addition, it is considered proper golf etiquette to repair the divot by tamping back down the patch torn by one’s swing.” Both the digging and the repair of the hole -- deliberate actions connected to the game -- constitute melakhot subsumed by the category of plowing (horesh), whose rubric includes the digging and filling of holes in the earth. Nevertheless, there would be no objection per se to hitting golf balls off of an artificial mat within an eruv, since doing so would not involve the creation of divots.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #732 on: June 14, 2017, 11:53:34 AM »
Oh please. Nobody frum is warmly embracing it, but that doesn't mean we can't have A"Y and be DL"Z.
This is almost certainly not accurate, though obviously you can play around with the definition of frum (no true Scotsman, etc.). More accurate would be to make that statement about the frum world as a whole, or even possibly about modern orthodoxy as a whole.

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #733 on: June 14, 2017, 12:33:14 PM »
50% of frum Jews don't put on Tefilin :P


Wow, this mus be true! can't believe this.

Guessing you don't have much exposure to modern orthodoxy.

Offline Dan

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #734 on: June 14, 2017, 12:36:34 PM »

Wow, this mus be true! can't believe this.

Lol, that may have gone over your head.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #735 on: June 14, 2017, 12:43:17 PM »
Lol, that may have gone over your head.

Now I understand why Chabadsker are putting on Tefilin on streets. There out for the frum ones!

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #736 on: June 14, 2017, 12:47:42 PM »
Now I understand why Chabadsker are putting on Tefilin on streets. There out for the frum ones!
Still don't get it huh?
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #737 on: June 14, 2017, 12:50:49 PM »
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Offline as2

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #738 on: June 14, 2017, 12:54:06 PM »


Many frum Jews don't put on 50% of Tefilin

FTFY
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Keeping Up With The Kushners
« Reply #739 on: June 14, 2017, 12:58:41 PM »
50% of frum Jews don't put on Tefilin :P
If you believe the Shidduch crisis noise it's more than 50%