Author Topic: Abortion = Murder?  (Read 50608 times)

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Abortion = Murder?
« on: January 24, 2017, 04:19:04 PM »
For JTZ.

If life begins at conception, there should be no difference between killing a fetus and killing a person who was born already.

You don't support laws against abortion (CMIIW), yet do support (I hope) laws against murder.

I think that is inconsistent.

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2017, 04:21:30 PM »
Is killing a human life murder?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1929
  • Total likes: 186
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2017, 04:24:54 PM »
Is killing a human life murder?
Sometimes.

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2017, 04:28:06 PM »

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2017, 04:37:04 PM »
How about taking the lives/killing of a whole race of people? Is that murder?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1929
  • Total likes: 186
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2017, 04:42:37 PM »
How about taking the lives/killing of a whole race of people? Is that murder?

Usually that's called genocide. Amalek is a special case.

Offline grodnoking

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 5847
  • Total likes: 767
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2017, 04:43:15 PM »
How about taking the lives/killing of a whole race of people? Is that murder?
Why don't you tell us what your getting at.
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2017, 04:43:30 PM »
Usually that's called genocide. Amalek is a special case.
Please answer the question.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2017, 04:44:42 PM »
How about taking the lives/killing of a whole race of people? Is that murder?

Sometimes.

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5671
  • Total likes: 917
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2017, 04:44:47 PM »
Life as we know it doesnt necessarily start at conception.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2017, 04:46:38 PM »

Since you don't understand what murder is then there is no need for this conversation.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2017, 04:47:49 PM »
Since you don't understand what murder is then there is no need for this conversation.
man, you are really good at deflection and avoidance. Just an objective observation

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15634
  • Total likes: 7723
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive PlatinumŽ
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2017, 04:47:54 PM »
Life as we know it doesnt necessarily start at conception.
According to Halacha.

And even after it did, there are cases where we apply the דין רודף if mother is in danger (which IINM might also apply to mental danger - but check with your LOR if that is ever an issue for you).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15634
  • Total likes: 7723
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive PlatinumŽ
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2017, 04:50:19 PM »
How about taking the lives/killing of a whole race of people? Is that murder?
Could you please define "race of people". Is a "race of people" (as opposed to human race) similar to what we would call a "breed" when referring to animals?

I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2017, 04:51:01 PM »
To clarify, I was asking about your inconsistency, based on your views and definition of murder.

You deflected it to ask about my definition of murder, which is irrelevant to my question.

You thereby avoided answering the question.

Again.

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2017, 04:54:22 PM »
Could you please define "race of people".
How about a group or number of people? Is that better? Like you don't know where I am going with this.  ::)
I am not the one who started this thread.  ;)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2017, 04:56:25 PM »
To clarify, I was asking about your inconsistency, based on your views and definition of murder.

You deflected it to ask about my definition of murder, which is irrelevant to my question.

You thereby avoided answering the question.

Again.
What a short memory we have.
Start a new thread and we can talk about it all you want. I will guarantee you that most here will not like the questions I ask that paint some of you as murderers.  ;)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15634
  • Total likes: 7723
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive PlatinumŽ
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2017, 05:07:07 PM »
How about a group or number of people? Is that better? Like you don't know where I am going with this.  ::)
I am not the one who started this thread.  ;)
I was off the grid for a while, so I am still trying to figure out where this thread came from, let alone where it's going. But I will never miss an opportunity to put some good seasoning on popcorn (as long as it ain't stale or burnt)  ;).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17405
  • Total likes: 14342
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2017, 05:21:18 PM »
I was off the grid for a while, so I am still trying to figure out where this thread came from, let alone where it's going. But I will never miss an opportunity to put some good seasoning on popcorn (as long as it ain't stale or burnt)  ;).
This is both stale and burnt
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Cheesecake

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Posts: 535
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Abortion = Murder?
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2017, 05:22:50 PM »
What a short memory we have.
I knew you would turn it into a discussion of Amalek.

Regardless, please answer the question first.

How do you explain not wanting to legislate against certain types of murder?