Abortion = Murder?

[JTZ]

I knew you would turn it into a discussion of Amalek.

..and you decide to start this thread anyway? 

You want to know if abortion = murder. I need to know what you consider murder to answer that. I will make this easy for you. Is killing a 1 year old Amalek murder?

[Boruch999]

..and you decide to start this thread anyway? 

You want to know if abortion = murder. I need to know what you consider murder to answer that. I will make this easy for you. Is killing a 1 year old Amalek murder?

Not if G-d told you to do it.  We can have this discussion when PP claim they are performing abortions because G-d told them to

[yuneeq]

..and you decide to start this thread anyway? 

You want to know if abortion = murder. I need to know what you consider murder to answer that. I will make this easy for you. Is killing a 1 year old Amalek murder?

Acc. to Jewish law, no.
Acc. to secular law, yes.

Next

[as2]

Firstly, check your yichus, you're answering questions with questions. Religious reasons, right or wrong, are a different scenario than simply doing something because of your own personal circumstances.

[JTZ]

Not if G-d told you to do it. 

Very interesting but now you opened up another can of worms. If someone says their religion claims G-d told them to do it that makes it ok and not murder. How much deeper you want to dig this hole?

[yuneeq]

Very interesting but now you opened up another can of worms. If someone says their religion claims G-d told them to do it that makes it ok and not murder. How much deeper you want to dig this hole?

You can't use religion to justify murder in a court of law.
You can use religion to justify it to yourself but you must be willing to face the consequences.

[gozalim]

If someone says their religion claims G-d told them to do it that makes it ok and not murder.

doesn't mean I won't kill him first in self defense

[Cheesecake]

..and you decide to start this thread anyway? 

You want to know if abortion = murder. I need to know what you consider murder to answer that. I will make this easy for you. Is killing a 1 year old Amalek murder?

I am asking according to your definition, not mine.

[Cheesecake]

Very interesting but now you opened up another can of worms. If someone says their religion claims G-d told them to do it that makes it ok and not murder. How much deeper you want to dig this hole?

It depends if they're right. If G-d didn't really allow it, then it's murder.

[Cheesecake]

Now please answer my question.

[JTZ]

Acc. to Jewish law, no.
Acc. to secular law, yes.

Next

So anyone that kills a Amalek (man, women or child) is a murderer according to the laws of this great country?

[yuneeq]

It depends if they're right. If G-d didn't really allow it, then it's murder.

You missed the huge worm that snuck out.
Is your God the same God that 300m other Americans believe in?

Would you set this murder policy for everyone or just for yourself?

[as2]

So anyone that kills a Amalek (man, women or child) is a murderer according to the laws of this great country?

Yes, but that has already been established. Regardless, when was the last time you heard of a (sane) american jew, or any jew for that matter, justify a killing with the fact that said victim was an amaleiki? Never. Now for abortion, that can't be said. Apples and oranges. Not a stance on abortion, just a stance on the comparison.

[Cheesecake]

You missed the huge worm that snuck out.
Is your God the same God that 300m other Americans believe in?

Would you set this murder policy for everyone or just for yourself?

I don't understand.

[yuneeq]

So anyone that kills a Amalek (man, women or child) is a murderer according to the laws of this great country?

If by "kill" you mean walking over to them and blowing their brains out for no reason, then yes of course you are a murderer.

[yuneeq]

I don't understand.

You're saying its okay to murder someone because your God said so.
What you're forgetting is that Joe Shmoe, his God said to kill schoolchildren.
And Ahmed's God told him to kill anyone that isn't Muslim.

And on and on.

[JTZ]

I am asking according to your definition, not mine.

You can ask all you want. I said beforehand exactly what I was going do and you went ahead anyway. Now you painted yourself in a corner.

[JTZ]

If by "kill" you mean walking over to them and blowing their brains out for no reason, then yes of course you are a murderer.

Need clarification.
Is G-d telling you to do it a reason or would that be a no reason and you are murderer according to laws of this country.

[as2]

You're saying its okay to murder someone because your God said so.
What you're forgetting is that Joe Shmoe, his God said to kill schoolchildren.
And Ahmed's God told him to kill anyone that isn't Muslim.

And on and on.

And by Joe Shmoe and Muslim standards, they have done nothing wrong. The real point that needs to be established here before this can properly be discussed, is whether this is based on personal beliefs or the law of the land.

[Cheesecake]

You're saying its okay to murder someone because your God said so.
What you're forgetting is that Joe Shmoe, his God said to kill schoolchildren.
And Ahmed's God told him to kill anyone that isn't Muslim.

And on and on.

And the laws of this great country will prosecute all.

Which I am okay with.

And practically speaking, G-d didn't tell us to kill anyone under existing circumstances, so the point is only academic.