Abortion = Murder?

[Cheesecake]

You can ask all you want. I said beforehand exactly what I was going do and you went ahead anyway. Now you painted yourself in a corner.

You didn't say to the exclusion of answering the question.

Which you obviously can't.

[as2]

Need clarification.
Is G-d telling you to do it a reason or would that be a no reason and you are murderer according to laws of this country.

This has been clarified. The laws of the land stand regardless of what an individual decides to believe in and act upon. There is a jewish concept called "dina d'malchusa dina" which means the law of the land is the law. Some argue as to what extent that is applicable, but everyone agrees the concept exists.

[JTZ]

And by Joe Shmoe and Muslim standards, they have done nothing wrong. The real point that needs to be established here before this can properly be discussed, is whether this is based on personal beliefs or the law of the land.

Personal beliefs are meaningless.

[as2]

Personal beliefs are meaningless.

By personal beliefs, I meant religion, and yes as far as the law of the land, they are. I believe we all agree on that.

[yuneeq]

Need clarification.
Is G-d telling you to do it a reason or would that be a no reason and you are murderer according to laws of this country.

There is a separation of church and state in the USA, so yes you would be a murderer according to our courts.

Personal beliefs are meaningless.

Meaningless to everyone besides the person himself

[as2]

Regardless of all this though, the OP question still stands based on your beliefs. OPs beliefs are irrelevant.

[Cheesecake]

By personal beliefs, I meant religion, and yes as far as the law of the land, they are. I believe we all agree on that.

Yes

[Boruch999]

So anyone that kills a Amalek (man, women or child) is a murderer according to the laws of this great country?

Of course

[JTZ]

Regardless of all this though, the OP question still stands based on your beliefs. OPs beliefs are irrelevant.

As I stated in the other thread my beliefs on that are personal. I am not going to pass judgement on others.

[as2]

As I stated in the other thread my beliefs on that are personal. I am not going to pass judgement on others.

Wonderful! So we sorted this out for OP. OP asked a question that clearly regards your personal beliefs. You are entitled like us all to publicly discuss your personal beliefs or keep them to yourself. Clearly in this case you want to keep them personal (completely understood) so OP should probably stop with this line of questioning as it is meaningless. JTZ correct me if I oversimplified that incorrectly.

[JTZ]

Wonderful! So we sorted this out for OP. OP asked a question that clearly regards your personal beliefs. You are entitled like us all to publicly discuss your personal beliefs or keep them to yourself. Clearly in this case you want to keep them personal (completely understood) so OP should probably stop with this line of questioning as it is meaningless. JTZ correct me if I oversimplified that incorrectly.

Seems pretty simple to me as it was in the other thread.

[Boruch999]

Wonderful! So we sorted this out for OP. OP asked a question that clearly regards your personal beliefs. You are entitled like us all to publicly discuss your personal beliefs or keep them to yourself. Clearly in this case you want to keep them personal (completely understood) so OP should probably stop with this line of questioning as it is meaningless. JTZ correct me if I oversimplified that incorrectly.

I think you misunderstood.  JTZ will correct you shortly.

[as2]

I think you misunderstood.  JTZ will correct you shortly.

I guess not.

[JTZ]

You understand where this is going, so you really can't answer.

I knew where it was going before the one who asked the question. 

I can answer it but choose not to as it is getting way to personal.

I made it clear in the other thread I was not going to answer it.

[as2]

Ones personal beliefs are just that, personal. Unless those beliefs are yours, you may not agree with them, you may not understand them, they may not make sense to you. Bottom line is, we as jews have a lot of beliefs that may seem extremely eccentric or even worse at times and here is someone who doesn't necessarily share those beliefs, saying he doesn't pass judgement. I will do the same. To each their own.

[ExGingi]

Not if G-d told you to do it.  We can have this discussion when PP claim they are performing abortions because G-d told them to

I think you might be mistaken here.

Only a Jewish king is allowed to initiate a war, and only in the case of Amalek, the only acceptable goal of such war is total annihilation. However, even in that case, it was a prophet that came to the king and told him to initiate the war.

A line can be drawn between war, and murder. And in cases other than Amalek, certain things would be considered war crimes, even by Jewish law.

[Cheesecake]

From the other thread:

Start a new thread and we can talk about it all you want. I will guarantee you that most here will not like the questions I ask that paint some of you as murderers. 

So the "we can talk about it" was a lie. Or perhaps you'll try to play word games with us?

Either way, you certainly haven't painted any of us as murderers. I can guarantee you that none of us has ever killed an Amaleki.

In fact, Amalek doesn't exist today in an identifiable way, so you deflected a legitimate question, which you said "we" would discuss, into a completely hypothetical discussion while claiming that some of us are murderers.

[aygart]

Happy I was mostly unavailable today.

[JTZ]

From the other thread:

So the "we can talk about it" was a lie. Or perhaps you'll try to play word games with us?

Either way, you certainly haven't painted any of us as murderers. I can guarantee you that none of us has ever killed an Amaleki.

In fact, Amalek doesn't exist today in an identifiable way, so you deflected a legitimate question, which you said "we" would discuss, into a completely hypothetical discussion while claiming that some of us are murderers.

So all these pages we haven't been talking about it? 
I said I would be asking questions and that has all I have been doing. I told you in the other thread and it this thread why I am not going to answer that question. You insist on keep pushing it and digging the whole deeper. Since that is want you want how about we make this about a whole religion?

Please explain The meaning of Deuteronomy 25:17-19. IIRC this is two of your commandments so it should be very easy for you.

[ExGingi]

Please explain The meaning of Deuteronomy 25:17-19. If IIRC this is two of your commandments so it should very easy for you.

See:

I think you might be mistaken here.

Only a Jewish king is allowed to initiate a war, and only in the case of Amalek, the only acceptable goal of such war is total annihilation. However, even in that case, it was a prophet that came to the king and told him to initiate the war.

A line can be drawn between war, and murder. And in cases other than Amalek, certain things would be considered war crimes, even by Jewish law.

And for further reading: http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1188345/jewish/Melachim-uMilchamot-Chapter-1.htm