Best Family Sedan?

[Dan]

I can't record it, it already happened.
I don't follow this Dave Ramsey guy, but from what I've heard him quoted as saying he sounds quite foolish. (Use a debit card instead of a credit card ) I'd take him on in a debate any day.
They don't care if you pay cash.  The opposite is true-they make more money and can lower the price if you finance instead of paying cash.

[Mikeoracle]

I can't record it, it already happened.
I don't follow this Dave Ramsey guy, but from what I've heard him quoted as saying he sounds quite foolish. (Use a debit card instead of a credit card ) I'd take him on in a debate any day.
They don't care if you pay cash.  The opposite is true-they make more money and can lower the price if you finance instead of paying cash.

Would you consider doing this as an agent for others and charging a fee?

[Yordai Dooma]

They don't care if you pay cash.  The opposite is true-they make more money and can lower the price if you finance instead of paying cash.

+1
On the last car i bought after bargaining the car down 5k below KBB (used car), adding cash to the picture didnt do a thing.

[Nitantnel]

I've had success negotiating prices of 20-40% off the asking prices for new cars by negotiating with hundreds of dealers nationwide.  If you are a good negotiator I don't think you'll save much by buying a car that's a few years old (and probably out of warranty too).

Dan,
If you can negotiate successfully for new cars and bring down the price up to 20-40 %, you should be able to negotiate for used cars and bring down the price to the same amount? Do they make less money off used cars and therefor can't afford to reduce the price!?

[Dan]

Dan,
If you can negotiate successfully for new cars and bring down the price up to 20-40 %, you should be able to negotiate for used cars and bring down the price to the same amount? Do they make less money off used cars and therefor can't afford to reduce the price!?

Every dealership in the nation has the exact the same new car.  One has no real advantage over the other, so they must compete on price as it's all apples and apples.

For used cars they claim theirs are better, etc. and don't have to compete on price as it's not exactly the same.

[AsherO]

Every dealership in the nation has the exact the same new car.  One has no real advantage over the other, so they must compete on price as it's all apples and apples.

There are other things they can use to compete: Options, fees, service, payment arrangements etc.

[Dan]

There are other things they can use to compete: Options, fees, service, payment arrangements etc.

Options for the cars?  Those should be the same everywhere?
Fees are more or less the same though unscrupulous dealers may start creating fake fees.
Payment arrangements are handled through Nissan financing and the rebates are the same everywhere.

Service could be a differentiator for some folks.  There's an Acura/Infiniti dealer by CLE that lets buyers swing by there before their flight, get chauffeured to the airport 2 minutes away, and they park your car in their lot for free and drop off your car at the airport when you return.
Now that's service!

But besides for that I think most people buy based solely on price in this industry.

[AsherO]

But besides for that I think most people buy based solely on price in this industry.

It's a known fact that cars are an emotional purchase

[whYME]

from what I've heard him quoted as saying he sounds quite foolish. (Use a debit card instead of a credit card )

I don't think he'll say that a debit card is better value then Credit Card, I imagine it's about not going into debt.
For every person churning and/or making a killing off miles how many people do you think there are who are going into debt and paying a ton in interest and fees? (which might be why they allow all the churning...)


Edit: in other words I assume he's saying that most people don't have the discipline & self control to only spend what they can afford and live within their means when always paying by CC.

[Dan]

I don't think he'll say that a debit card is better value then Credit Card, I imagine it's about not going into debt.
For every person churning and/or making a killing off miles how many people do you think there are who are going into debt and paying a ton in interest and fees? (which might be why they allow all the churning...)

Nope, his beliefs are much more extreme than that.
This article was the first google hit:
http://www.daveramsey.com/article/the-truth-about-credit-card-debt/

Absolute rubbish IMHO.
"Myth: Aren't there positive uses of a credit card? Like rebates and airline miles?
Truth: Responsible use of a credit card does not exist."
"There is no positive side to credit card use."
"If you "have to" use plastic, I suggest a debit card. I use them for travel and the occasional convenience of ordering something over the Internet or phone. Other than that, I use cash."
"You cannot beat the credit card companies."

Gimme a break

[whYME]

Nope, his beliefs are much more extreme than that.
This article was the first google hit:
http://www.daveramsey.com/article/the-truth-about-credit-card-debt/

Absolute rubbish IMHO.
"Myth: Aren't there positive uses of a credit card? Like rebates and airline miles?
Truth: Responsible use of a credit card does not exist."
"There is no positive side to credit card use."
"If you "have to" use plastic, I suggest a debit card. I use them for travel and the occasional convenience of ordering something over the Internet or phone. Other than that, I use cash."
"You cannot beat the credit card companies."

Gimme a break

OK, you're right. the guy is nuts.

but I still think my original statement is correct. most people are  not coming out ahead using CCs (If I'm not mistaken the average CC debt per US household is about 11k)

[Dan]

OK, you're right. the guy is nuts.

but I still think my original statement is correct. most people are  not coming out ahead using CCs (If I'm not mistaken the average CC debt per US household is about 11k)

I can't argue with that.
But I think a good majority of DDF users manage to beat the card companies while spending responsibly.

[myb821]

I can't argue with that.
But I think a good majority of DDF users manage to beat the card companies while spending responsibly.

+1

[whYME]

I can't argue with that.
But I think a good majority of DDF users manage to beat the card companies while spending responsibly.

Agreed.

[MarkS]

I can't argue with that.
But I think a good majority of DDF users manage to beat the card companies while spending responsibly.

While I agree with you, he has a decent point when he writes:

"When you pay cash, you can "feel" the money leaving you. This is not true with credit cards. Flipping a credit card up on a counter registers nothing emotionally. A study of credit card use at McDonald’s found that people spent 47% more when using credit instead of cash. This is money you could have saved!"

Every time I go to Walmart for example, and rack up a bill on things I 'need', I would think twice if I had to pay cash!
I always pay my CC bills on time, but I would definitely spend less if using cash. When I was in Israel and using cash, every time I went to a restaurant or store, I thought twice about what I was buying, how much it costs, and I saw how often I was going back to the ATM!

I love not having to think before buying things, but he is correct that most people would spend less without CC's.

[AsherO]

"When you pay cash, you can "feel" the money leaving you. This is not true with credit cards. Flipping a credit card up on a counter registers nothing emotionally. A study of credit card use at McDonald’s found that people spent 47% more when using credit instead of cash. This is money you could have saved!"

Correlation doesn't (necessarily) equal causation. In the McDonald's example it could very well be that (at least some) McDonald's customers who use a credit card can afford more than those who don't even own a credit card.

So long as you spend responsibly, spending more isn't necessarily a bad thing. Lets say I (hypothetically) have a stingy acquaintance, credit cards are a good thing in this aspect He's able to get over his emotional hangup about parting with his money, and buy the things he has to.

[MarkS]

Occasionally when I buy something that I totally don't need and only got because there was a deal posted on Dansdeals, I think that DD costs me $$.

But then I remember the thousands of dollars I've saved both buying things I DO need (at sale prices), the 10's of boxes of free diapers, and the hundreds of thousands of mileage and free flights I've taken!

[AsherO]

Occasionally when I buy something that I totally don't need and only got because there was a deal posted on Dansdeals, I think that DD costs me $$.

But then I remember the thousands of dollars I've saved both buying things I DO need (at sale prices), the 10's of boxes of free diapers, and the hundreds of thousands of mileage and free flights I've taken!

It's like I like to say about Costco: People often times come out of Costco spending as much as they would've spent elsewhere, but at least they got more and/or better value than elsewhere.

[Nitantnel]

Lets say I (hypothetically) have a stingy acquaintance, credit cards are a good thing in this aspect He's able to get over his emotional hangup about parting with his money, and buy the things he has to.

Describes me perfectly! 

Back on topic here, I still think you can get real good deal on used cars. With a new car, there is only so much the dealer can afford to discount - they need to make some money - with used cars however, they can convince the seller it is worthless..Etc. Etc., thereby getting a good deal for themselves; and you - if you have the talent - can also convince them that it is worthless. Especially buying repossessed cars, those are known to be sold at huge discounts!

For me this would not work, though. Car dealers usually know more about people than about cars, there is no chance I will be able to get my way... 

[Dan]

While I agree with you, he has a decent point when he writes:

"When you pay cash, you can "feel" the money leaving you. This is not true with credit cards. Flipping a credit card up on a counter registers nothing emotionally. A study of credit card use at McDonald’s found that people spent 47% more when using credit instead of cash. This is money you could have saved!"

Every time I go to Walmart for example, and rack up a bill on things I 'need', I would think twice if I had to pay cash!
I always pay my CC bills on time, but I would definitely spend less if using cash. When I was in Israel and using cash, every time I went to a restaurant or store, I thought twice about what I was buying, how much it costs, and I saw how often I was going back to the ATM!

I love not having to think before buying things, but he is correct that most people would spend less without CC's.

And then he goes onto say that people should use debit cards instead of credit cards.
Maybe there is a difference in how you spend between cash and plastic, but between plastic and plastic, really?

And then you lose all of the protections and benefits that credit cards give you.