Shabbos at A Hotel Master Thread

[Luvisrael]

Embassy suites, Hyatt house east  (full kitchen) & Sheraton

i mean manual keys

[ExGingi]

I didn't read through this entire thread, but I did look at the Wiki and couldn't find any reference to the following issue, so I'll post my question here.

I was recently made aware of a major Shabbos issue in hi-risers in EY. It seems like buildings taller than 5 floors might have electric pumps in order to provide water to higher floors. Opening a faucet or flushing the toilet can directly affect the operation of the pump, potentially presenting a problem on Shabbos. There are shabbos compliant solutions out there (Zomet.org.il seems to provide one), but unless specified builders might not install them.

Based on https://www.zomet.org.il/?CategoryID=422&ArticleID=1123 it might also be a problem in a Hotel. (though I'm not sure why they say the problem is only in the top 4 floors).

משאבות לחץ – כמעט בכל בית מלון מותקנים משאבות להגברת לחץ המים, ובייחוד בקומות הגבוהות. המשמעות המעשית היא שבעת פתיחת ברזי המים, משאבת הלחץ עלולה להיכנס   לפעולה כדי להגביר את הלחץ [10] . לכן במלון שאין לו התקן מאושר – יש להימנע מלהזמין חדר ב-4 הקומות העליונות שלו. במקרה שכבר הזמין חדר בקומה גבוהה - ניתן להקל בהורדת המים לאסלה, שהוא צורך גדול והותר משום 'כבוד הבריות'. לשתייה ולרחיצת פנים וידיים, ניתן וראוי להכין מראש בקבוקי מים.

Has anyone ever looked into this for hotels (or hi-rise residential buildings), and have any insights?

[Joel]

i mean manual keys

you can always call any hotel before booking and inquire if they have a manual key option. Simple solution.

[moko]

I didn't read through this entire thread, but I did look at the Wiki and couldn't find any reference to the following issue, so I'll post my question here.

I was recently made aware of a major Shabbos issue in hi-risers in EY. It seems like buildings taller than 5 floors might have electric pumps in order to provide water to higher floors. Opening a faucet or flushing the toilet can directly affect the operation of the pump, potentially presenting a problem on Shabbos. There are shabbos compliant solutions out there (Zomet.org.il seems to provide one), but unless specified builders might not install them.

Based on https://www.zomet.org.il/?CategoryID=422&ArticleID=1123 it might also be a problem in a Hotel. (though I'm not sure why they say the problem is only in the top 4 floors).

Has anyone ever looked into this for hotels (or hi-rise residential buildings), and have any insights?

I don't believe he's right about which floor makes a difference. The pumps pump water I to storage tanks on the roof and then gravity is in play. There's no difference in such scenarios if your on a high floor or low floor. Regardless, it's definitely a safek psik reisha or better. There are sensors (or plunger floats on older pumps) that activate when it teaches below a certain level. This is my understanding when it was noigeya in reverse (a toilet at sewer level needs a pump for drainage)

[moko]

After quite a search, we settled with the Courtyard Lincroft Red Bank. The staff from the Northeast sales staff (up in Boston) who to care of the event booking to the GM and local event manager who took care of the local details to the front desk staff whom arranged room placement and last but not least, the maintenance staff who took care of setup and cleanup, all the individuals we dealt with went out of their way to accommodate us.
We arrived at the hotel Friday afternoon around 1pm and immediately they took care of check in, though check in isn't until 3pm. most of our 10 rooms were placed on the ground level though a few were placed on the 2nd floor due to personal preferences and a complementary suite upgrade. (We davened shacharis sunday morning in the suite living room)

        The hotel itself is very conducive for a nice shabbos getaway due, in no small part, to the fantastic courtyard, and it isn't a very large hotel (just 3 floors and 140 rooms). The hotel is built around the courtyard which is therefore completely surrounded and needs no eruv to carry within it or across to your room. All the ground floor rooms have a small patio with 2 chairs and a small table which opens onto the larger hotel garden - or parking lot if you get a lot facing room  , none of us did though. (though some of our rooms had larger personal patios - short stone wall around it- which jutted out into the courtyard with no balcony above or overhanging trees- for the DDF'r looking for a sukka friendly hotel room) All of the upper floor rooms all had balconies overlooking the garden. The hotel was renovated about 6 months ago with a fresh and modern decor and looks surprisingly like the pictures you find on the website.

        The conference room (1 of 2) is 650 sqf. with a coat closet and countertop. The room comfortably was setup for 30 ppl. and an additional 15 in the "shul" section (I would estimate that you could setup for 50-60 ppl comfortably with "U" shaped setup, if you use the whole room). I brought a fridge with me, as the hotel was unable to provide one (though they offered to arrange one with a rental company which I declined) We borrowed coat racks from a gemach and hung curtains from them as a mechitza. The hotel officially allowed us to setup hot plates and a crockpot on the (marble) countertop in the room.(though I made sure to get that in writing from the sales staff)

        Cost: The conference room was $300 for Shabbos and $150 for Friday- essentially ours from 3 pm on Friday to 11 pm for $450.
The rooms cost $139 reg. rate or $119 Marriott rewards offer rate (available for rewards members- i think) or 15000 points per night. We reserved each room for 2 nights- all points. (70k + free night for each person- everyone walked away with enough for next year's  )

doing this again next week at Four Points Sheraton Buffalo Grove. Was a cat 1 when we booked so 7500 per night. (It's now a cat 2- 12500). We booked about 20 rooms. The hotel is within the Buffalo Grove Eruv and only 1.2 mi from the shul if you don't have a minyan, 2 huge advantages.conference room is only $200 per day and we have it booked for 3 days. Food is being catered by a local caterer, hotel is providing refrigeration.

[moko]

i mean manual keys

are you open to alternate solutions or do you only want manual keys?

[Luvisrael]

are you open to alternate solutions or do you only want manual keys?

yeah I know abt taping locks

[ExGingi]

I don't believe he's right about which floor makes a difference. The pumps pump water I to storage tanks on the roof and then gravity is in play. There's no difference in such scenarios if your on a high floor or low floor. Regardless, it's definitely a safek psik reisha or better. There are sensors (or plunger floats on older pumps) that activate when it teaches below a certain level. This is my understanding when it was noigeya in reverse (a toilet at sewer level needs a pump for drainage)

I did some googling about the topic, and from what I see it seems like there most probably is a difference between lower floors and higher floors, as an efficient system would use regular gravity feed for lower floors, and a rooftop tank for higher floors.

[jmz]

I didn't read through this entire thread, but I did look at the Wiki and couldn't find any reference to the following issue, so I'll post my question here.

I was recently made aware of a major Shabbos issue in hi-risers in EY. It seems like buildings taller than 5 floors might have electric pumps in order to provide water to higher floors. Opening a faucet or flushing the toilet can directly affect the operation of the pump, potentially presenting a problem on Shabbos. There are shabbos compliant solutions out there (Zomet.org.il seems to provide one), but unless specified builders might not install them.

Based on https://www.zomet.org.il/?CategoryID=422&ArticleID=1123 it might also be a problem in a Hotel. (though I'm not sure why they say the problem is only in the top 4 floors).

Has anyone ever looked into this for hotels (or hi-rise residential buildings), and have any insights?

It's not only hi-rises either. I have seen this issue in homes with more than one floor in Israel. As soon as you open the faucet, regardless of what floor you're on, the pump goes on. Obviously, everyone should ask their own rav but I have a smart timer and set it for a few shabbosos at a time to go off for shabbos. Yuntif is apparently ok.

[moko]

It's not only hi-rises either. I have seen this issue in homes with more than one floor in Israel. As soon as you open the faucet, regardless of what floor you're on, the pump goes on. Obviously, everyone should ask their own rav but I have a smart timer and set it for a few shabbosos at a time to go off for shabbos. Yuntif is apparently ok.

many (most?) Single family homes dont have pumps , unless there a special circumstances or issue. Usually they rely on water pressure. There are cases where pumps are used in reverse such as if a toilet or shower is at or below the sewer line.

[jmz]

many (most?) Single family homes dont have pumps , unless there a special circumstances or issue. Usually they rely on water pressure. There are cases where pumps are used in reverse such as if a toilet or shower is at or below the sewer line.

I was referring back to EY. Which has both as well but people don't realize to check which is what happened to me.

[YeshivishGuy]

Hi all,
i wanted to go to Stamford for shabbos in December. I was going to stay at Holiday in Express in Stanford since I saw it listed as a shabbos friendly hotel on  hotels near shuls .com. however  when i called the hotel to comfirm I was told there is no way to enter the hotel without going thru electric automatic opening doors. anyway stay here and know if it is shabbos friendly.

[Sammyonetwo]

My flight got canceled and staying in Madrid for shabbos.  So I checked into my hotel I see there small night lights in the room  that work with sensors when you walk around.
And all the hallway lights when walking to the Elevators are controlled by sensors.

Anyone know a way to work around these sensors to leave them on or always off especially the room ones? 

Thinking i might need to change my hotel anyone that could recommend a hotel in Madrid close to Chabad that knows we won’t have these issues?

[PlatinumGuy]

My flight got canceled and staying in Madrid for shabbos.  So I checked into my hotel I see there small night lights in the room  that work with sensors when you walk around.
And all the hallway lights when walking to the Elevators are controlled by sensors.

Anyone know a way to work around these sensors to leave them on or always off especially the room ones? 

Thinking i might need to change my hotel anyone that could recommend a hotel in Madrid close to Chabad that knows we won’t have these issues?

In the room find the sensor and block it. In the hallway ask your LOR, but assuming you can see without the new lights being on, it's פסיק רישיה דלא ניחא ליה, which is OK if you consider electricity דרבנן. 

[Yard sale]

In the room find the sensor and block it. In the hallway ask your LOR, but assuming you can see without the new lights being on, it's פסיק רישיה דלא ניחא ליה, which is OK if you consider electricity דרבנן.

What makes it פסרדלנ״ל if the lights help one see even better. Perhaps you are confusing it with תוספת אור of אמירא לעכו״ם?

[yelped]

What makes it פסרדלנ״ל if the lights help one see even better. Perhaps you are confusing it with תוספת אור of אמירא לעכו״ם?

It's a Teshuva from Rav Wosner.

[Yard sale]

It's a Teshuva from Rav Wosner.

You mean this teshuva?
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1419&st=&pgnum=51&hilite=
 
Although he starts by discussing פס״ר he is not being matir due to פסרדלנ״ל rather because it isn’t considered a maaseh melacha at all. It’s not at all clear that would apply to the hotel hallway.  He is referring to one walking on the street and passing by our house with a motion sensor. So is the חשב האפוד he quotes. The Sefer לקראת שבת appears to be misapplying Rav Vosner (Rav Vosners teshuva in ohr Yisrael is identical to the one in shevet HaLevi). I don’t think anyone can possibly call the hotel lighting לא ניחא.This might even be more comparable to the end of the teshuva where he prohibits  one walking through a door that is activated by motion sensor.  Although not completely analogous the reasoning may be similar; the hotel is setting the hallway lighting so that it is activated by the motion of the guest for the guests benefit and that becomes the normal way to use the hallway. Very different from passing by a motion activated light on a strangers house on the street.

[yelped]

I think this was discussed earlier here. Passing by during the day shouldn't be any issue.

[Yard sale]

I think this was discussed earlier here. Passing by during the day shouldn't be any issue.

During the day one can make the case that it is לא ניחא if there is fully adequate daylight coming through. In my experience this is often not the case.

[Pesach]

does anyone know if conrad washington dc shabbos friendly ?