Author Topic: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con  (Read 9295 times)

Offline thaber

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 3370
  • Total likes: 315
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #120 on: March 16, 2022, 08:11:14 PM »


Why is it any more confusing than the current status? On the contrary, it allows for a more gradual transition and could benefit commerce.





Letting each locale choose a different time would be disastrous. Imagine driving through the country and the time keeps jumping back and forth.

A big impetus for standardized times, and the reason it requires an act of congress and isn't l left to states and municipalities is that there were multiple train crashes due to lack of consistency.
Anything granular or arbitrary will have the same issue.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 14493
  • Total likes: 9837
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #121 on: March 16, 2022, 10:16:58 PM »
Washingtonian: The US Tried Permanent Daylight Saving Time in the '70s. People Hated It.
https://www.washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-70s-people-hated-it/
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 12970
  • Total likes: 4887
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #122 on: March 16, 2022, 10:28:23 PM »
Washingtonian: The US Tried Permanent Daylight Saving Time in the '70s. People Hated It.
https://www.washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-70s-people-hated-it/

My guess is that if this becomes the law of the land, people might end up hating it again, and it will be rescinded in a few years. IINM the energy savings component is totally out of the window at this point.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 14493
  • Total likes: 9837
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #123 on: March 16, 2022, 10:31:45 PM »
My guess is that if this becomes the law of the land, people might end up hating it again, and it will be rescinded in a few years. IINM the energy savings component is totally out of the window at this point.
It is the opposite now. You save electricity that has more renewable sand use more heating fuel
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Zalc

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 1628
  • Total likes: 85
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #124 on: March 17, 2022, 01:44:19 AM »
Seems to me like the best solution for the kids issue is for schools continue to change their operating hours to match sunlight roughly, so kids don't go to school in the black of night.
School usually ends before work, so there is time to move it even in the shorter winter days and not have kids out in the dark.
Yes, kids will have less time to play at the end of the day, but there's less sun to go around in the winter, and clock shenanigans won't change that fact.

Work 9-5 is harder to shift and more ingrained, this change would make the drive home a lot safer as the 3rd bullet states.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 14493
  • Total likes: 9837
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #125 on: March 17, 2022, 08:09:21 AM »


Seems to me like the best solution for the kids issue is for schools continue to change their operating hours to match sunlight roughly, so kids don't go to school in the black of night.
School usually ends before work, so there is time to move it even in the shorter winter days and not have kids out in the dark.
Yes, kids will have less time to play at the end of the day, but there's less sun to go around in the winter, and clock shenanigans won't change that fact.

Work 9-5 is harder to shift and more ingrained, this change would make the drive home a lot safer as the 3rd bullet states.



So if everyone is changing their schedule then what the hell is the point of all this?!



If schools start an hour later then work starts an hour later. If everyone's schedule just shifts by an hour and 9 is the new 8 then the whole thing is pointless.

Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 12354
  • Total likes: 3459
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8016
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #126 on: March 17, 2022, 08:58:20 AM »
A Lubavitcher came over to me last night* asking why everyone is making a big deal about this whole new DST law passing.

*While still in teffilin and hearing megillah.
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 3625
  • Total likes: 9526
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #127 on: March 17, 2022, 01:30:56 PM »
A Lubavitcher came over to me last night* asking why everyone is making a big deal about this whole new DST law passing.

*While still in teffilin and hearing megillah.

I told you to keep the do private
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline Yonah

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 564
  • Total likes: 317
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #128 on: March 18, 2022, 09:46:25 AM »
A few more things that I am surprised people haven't brought up more so far:

- We've talked about Detroit and Cleveland and their time zones. From what I've heard (via my Michigander BIL) - Detroit was kept in the eastern time zone so that Car Companies couldn't announce earnings after the markets closed in NYC. I'm sure how relevant this still is today. There was also talk a few years ago of the New England states - CT, MA, RI, NH, VT, ME - wanting to switch to the Atlantic time zone (1 hour ahead of NY). I imagine if this DST law passes, there will be more traction to those.

- I realize that most people probably still have standard 9 to 5's but post-pandemic a lot of that is slowly changing. More people are working from home, and have flexible hours - I am wondering if this might change more if the DST law passes. If more people shift to flex hours coupled with a DST change, it could potentially shift how we think about minyan. Maybe the 6:45 am shacharis of the past becomes the 8am shacharis of the future?

- I think that the whole school argument is BS. Aside from the western fringes of each time zone, most kids don't have long commutes to school, and school doesn't start ridiculously early. If your district starts at 9am, it shouldn't be an issue.

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 3533
  • Total likes: 3565
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #129 on: March 18, 2022, 09:53:17 AM »

- I think that the whole school argument is BS. Aside from the western fringes of each time zone, most kids don't have long commutes to school, and school doesn't start ridiculously early. If your district starts at 9am, it shouldn't be an issue.
My primary (Pre-1A) son starts school at 9:00 am, but his bus picks him up at 7:35. That will be dark during the winter with the new full time DST. Much of Lakewood is like this - they double stack the bus drivers - boys first, then girls.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 14493
  • Total likes: 9837
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #130 on: March 18, 2022, 02:01:35 PM »


Wasn't it a voice vote? That just means that nobody objected. It's possible that the chamber was half empty, and nobody there even realized what was happening.





Everyone Was Surprised By The Senate Passing Permanent Daylight Saving Time. Especially The Senators.



https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/paulmcleod/daylight-saving-time-senate
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Something Fishy

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 7991
  • Total likes: 3913
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 44
    • View Profile
    • Kosher Horizons
  • Location: Not Brooklyn
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #131 on: March 18, 2022, 02:04:22 PM »





Everyone Was Surprised By The Senate Passing Permanent Daylight Saving Time. Especially The Senators

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/paulmcleod/daylight-saving-time-senate

That's pathetic
Check out my site for epic kosher adventures: Kosher Horizons

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 12970
  • Total likes: 4887
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #132 on: March 18, 2022, 02:11:07 PM »
That's pathetic

At least here we have some checks and balances in the form of a House of Representatives, and a President that needs to sign it into law.

Contrast that with what went on in Jerusalem about two weeks ago, when something was up for a committee vote, all members were called out for consultation, and the committee chairman called for the vote and passed it by unanimous consent (he voted for it, and there was no-one present to vote against it).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Yehudaa

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2018
  • Posts: 2990
  • Total likes: 1530
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 109
    • View Profile
  • Location: YYZ
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #133 on: March 18, 2022, 02:47:17 PM »
Contrast that with what went on in Jerusalem about two weeks ago, when something was up for a committee vote, all members were called out for consultation, and the committee chairman called for the vote and passed it by unanimous consent (he voted for it, and there was no-one present to vote against it).

Wow. Link?

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 12970
  • Total likes: 4887
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #134 on: March 18, 2022, 03:01:49 PM »
Wow. Link?


I believe this was about limiting debate for a certain laws.

https://www.maariv.co.il/news/viral/Article-902762
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 7958
  • Total likes: 2565
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #135 on: March 18, 2022, 03:43:10 PM »
You think you would be able to sleep?

Better than how I sleep right now. I'm too awake at night for a 24 hour schedule.
"If you fall, I will be there." -Floor

Offline skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 3497
  • Total likes: 625
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Daylight &quot;Saving&quot; Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #136 on: March 18, 2022, 06:38:25 PM »
I guess it's time to start planning communities in PR. No DST and potential tax haven for certain types of income.
Panama city. Their davening times barely change, and it's already probably the largest community of Jews (both counting only frum or all Jews) in the tropics.

Offline zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1323
  • Total likes: 1205
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 12970
  • Total likes: 4887
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #138 on: March 19, 2022, 11:37:15 PM »


https://flowingdata.com/2022/03/18/sunrise-times-with-permanent-day-light-saving/

This map begs for some questions to be asked, such as why do Michigan and Indiana observe Eastern time?

Idaho, the Dakotas (and possibly Montana) should also probably move over one time zone to the west.

And why aren't timezones drawn diagonally?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2022/03/17/daylight-saving-time-sunrise-sunset/
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline yesitsme

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 4604
  • Total likes: 1904
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #139 on: March 19, 2022, 11:42:41 PM »
This map begs for some questions to be asked, such as why do Michigan and Indiana observe Eastern time?

Idaho, the Dakotas (and possibly Montana) should also probably move over one time zone to the west.

And why aren't timezones drawn diagonally?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2022/03/17/daylight-saving-time-sunrise-sunset/
Let's go make a map with your suggested changes and let's see what it's like
["-"]