Author Topic: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con  (Read 9292 times)

Offline bubkiz

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 709
  • Total likes: 45
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2022, 04:01:29 PM »
What are the chances it passes the House?

Offline Yonah

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 564
  • Total likes: 317
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2022, 04:02:50 PM »
Law just passed making it permanent.
How does that affect Davening times?
Are some days gonna be crazy late?

I think that the latest netz would be something like 8:00am in the NY Metro. This would make misheyakir 7:25 or so, which means that a 6:45 minyan would be too early.

It would also make Chatzos later, so later mincha minyanim

....

Also kids getting on the bus in the pitch black
Yes, and starting your work day in the dark.

So what are the pros?
Itís not too often that something passes unanimously
The earliest Shabbos is now just after 5pm vs after 4pm
With Netz being so late, zman tefila and zman krias shma would also be later, so maybe a shabbos morning minyan time adjustment might be in order.
For those shuls that might struggle to get a mincha minyan in the winter, it might be easier to get a 5pm minyan vs a 4pm one.

....
Asara b'Teivas is an hour longer (effectively)

Not exactly. The fast would begin at ~7am instead of ~6. So if you were getting up early to eat (which I often do on this fast day) you don't need to wake up any earlier. You're till also just skipping one meal.



Online Something Fishy

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 7991
  • Total likes: 3912
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 44
    • View Profile
    • Kosher Horizons
  • Location: Not Brooklyn
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2022, 04:55:53 PM »
💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩

A bunch of winter Motzei Shabbos flights I rely on will no longer work.
Check out my site for epic kosher adventures: Kosher Horizons

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 28355
  • Total likes: 5229
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 77
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2022, 05:03:09 PM »
💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩

A bunch of winter Motzei Shabbos flights I rely on will no longer work.

Just convince your posek not to hold of DST. Voila, problem solved :P

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 12970
  • Total likes: 4887
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2022, 05:14:18 PM »
💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩

A bunch of winter Motzei Shabbos flights I rely on will no longer work.

Simple "solution" (which I won't be surprised if it actually gets implemented): schedules are adjusted to between 30-60 minutes later (not necessarily flights, but school and business hours).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 3533
  • Total likes: 3565
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2022, 05:16:00 PM »
Simple "solution" (which I won't be surprised if it actually gets implemented): schedules are adjusted to between 30-60 minutes later (not necessarily flights, but school and business hours).
Which puts us right back to square one.

Offline Yehudaa

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2018
  • Posts: 2990
  • Total likes: 1530
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 109
    • View Profile
  • Location: YYZ
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2022, 05:19:55 PM »
How does that affect Davening times?
Are some days gonna be crazy late?
In Toronto we currently have a few weeks twice in the winter when misheyakir gets to 6:45-7:00 and neitz gets to 7:40-7:55.

Even if one is willing to daven before neitz, not being able to put on tallis/tefillin before 7:45-8:00 would be disastrous for anyone who has to be at work at 8:30 or 9 and has any sort of commute or has carpools etc to attend to.

Granted Toronto is not part of the US but if the US does this I can't imagine Canada will be too far behind.

Simple "solution" (which I won't be surprised if it actually gets implemented): schedules are adjusted to between 30-60 minutes later (not necessarily flights, but school and business hours).
Correct, but that doesn't help for any business that works outside the frum community.

IIRC I once heard that there was a period when England did this and Gateshead yeshiva had their time a half hour behind the rest of the country for this reason.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 14493
  • Total likes: 9837
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2022, 05:25:04 PM »
In Toronto we currently have a few weeks twice in the winter when misheyakir gets to 6:45-7:00 and neitz gets to 7:40-7:55.

Even if one is willing to daven before neitz, not being able to put on tallis/tefillin before 7:45-8:00 would be disastrous for anyone who has to be at work at 8:30 or 9 and has any sort of commute or has carpools etc to attend to.

Granted Toronto is not part of the US but if the US does this I can't imagine Canada will be too far behind.
Correct, but that doesn't help for any business that works outside the frum community.

IIRC I once heard that there was a period when England did this and Gateshead yeshiva had their time a half hour behind the rest of the country for this reason.
Same goes for CLE
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 12970
  • Total likes: 4887
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2022, 05:25:57 PM »
Is there any chance of this being overturned? Commerce clause? Anything?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 12970
  • Total likes: 4887
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2022, 05:26:59 PM »
Same goes for CLE

So maybe the solution would be to divide the US into a few more timezones.

BTW, what happens in Hawaii?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 14493
  • Total likes: 9837
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2022, 05:35:07 PM »
So maybe the solution would be to divide the US into a few more timezones.

BTW, what happens in Hawaii?
It is closer to the tropics.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online Something Fishy

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 7991
  • Total likes: 3912
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 44
    • View Profile
    • Kosher Horizons
  • Location: Not Brooklyn
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2022, 05:57:30 PM »
So maybe the solution would be to divide the US into a few more timezones.

BTW, what happens in Hawaii?

Hawaii doesn't observe DST in the first place. Nothing changes for them (and the other similar localities as well).
Check out my site for epic kosher adventures: Kosher Horizons

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 63077
  • Total likes: 10547
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2022, 06:02:24 PM »
Hawaii doesn't observe DST in the first place. Nothing changes for them (and the other similar localities as well).
But will they have to now?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Yo ssi

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2019
  • Posts: 4974
  • Total likes: 1742
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 45
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2022, 06:25:11 PM »
What about the rest of the world?
_    ,
' )  /
 /  / __   _   _   o
(__/_(_)  /_)_/_)_<_
 //
(/

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 63077
  • Total likes: 10547
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2022, 06:27:51 PM »
What about the rest of the world?
A decent amount of it doesn't change clocks, they use standard time.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 7303
  • Total likes: 1803
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2022, 06:40:21 PM »
I think that the latest netz would be something like 8:00am in the NY Metro. This would make misheyakir 7:25 or so, which means that a 6:45 minyan would be too early.
Latest netz would be around 8:30
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 28355
  • Total likes: 5229
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 77
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2022, 07:26:47 PM »
Simple "solution" (which I won't be surprised if it actually gets implemented): schedules are adjusted to between 30-60 minutes later (not necessarily flights, but school and business hours).

So the US where people already start their days later than abroad (anecdotally, I have no data), will start their day even later?

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 28355
  • Total likes: 5229
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 77
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2022, 07:27:28 PM »
A decent amount of it doesn't change clocks, they use standard time.

This sounds more reasonable. Why does that work for everyone else but not for the US?

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 63077
  • Total likes: 10547
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2022, 07:28:21 PM »
This sounds more reasonable. Why does that work for everyone else but not for the US?
Because Rubio has been pushing this and FL really wants DST.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Online Something Fishy

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 7991
  • Total likes: 3912
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 44
    • View Profile
    • Kosher Horizons
  • Location: Not Brooklyn
Re: Daylight "Saving" Time - Pro or Con
« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2022, 08:23:58 PM »
Check out my site for epic kosher adventures: Kosher Horizons