Author Topic: NY Post Article On Satmar Couple's Open Marriage (Interesting Articles Split)  (Read 44241 times)

Offline elit

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So the statement that "people don't leave for taiva" has been proven wrong thousands of times within the last fifty years.

Did you mean to write a different number than fifty? Where has this been proven thousands of times in the last fifty years?

Offline Denverite

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Dating? In Satmer?

Dude, relax it was a joke, although in all seriousness if that story is true as written, there most certainly was a reason they were matched together.

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Dude, relax it was a joke, although in all seriousness if that story is true as written, there most certainly was a reason they were matched together.

Dude, relax it was a joke
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Did you mean to write a different number than fifty? Where has this been proven thousands of times in the last fifty years?
No I meant fifty as in the 60s 70s and 80s maybe sixty years to include the entire 60s.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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1) I didn't say there was one cause I just said there's a common denominator in virtually all of them and that is tremendous pain not taivah. Obviously there are exceptions but the very large majority leave because of pain.
2) I am only talking about the current generation obviously throughout history there were many different reasons need left yiddishkeit but those reasons are very often very different than today

That could be, but the statement that
People don't leave their culture family lifestyle etc... for taiiva. Slip up once a while maybe but not wholesale leaving and rejection
is simply not true. Once you get past that untrue premise you need to recalculate.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline elit

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No I meant fifty as in the 60s 70s and 80s maybe sixty years to include the entire 60s.
Can't speak for then but I'm skeptical...
That could be, but the statement thatis simply not true. Once you get past that untrue premise you need to recalculate.
I'm not sure what you mean I stand by that statement for this generation

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Can't speak for then but I'm skeptical...I'm not sure what you mean I stand by that statement for this generation
This is simply cognitive dissonance. YOu are skeptical that people left yiddishkeit in the 60s without the pain you describe? Maybe a broader view of history and life will help you in your contacts with these kids.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline elit

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This is simply cognitive dissonance. YOu are skeptical that people left yiddishkeit in the 60s without the pain you describe? Maybe a broader view of history and life will help you in your contacts with these kids.

Because I potentially disagree with you means I have a narrower view of life and history than you?

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Because I potentially disagree with you means I have a narrower view of life and history than you?
If that is what you think happened with 100s maybe thousands of times the amount of people leaving yiddishkeit in college without the rebeliousness found in many current OTD kids then yes.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yitzf

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If that is what you think happened with 100s maybe thousands of times the amount of people leaving yiddishkeit in college without the rebeliousness found in many current OTD kids then yes.

We dont need to go back to the 50's

r"l
https://www.ou.org/life/parenting/why-are-our-teens-going-off-derech-steven-pruzansky/
Quote
A new unpublished study recently brought to my attention has challenging implications for the Torah world – to wit, that a substantial number of graduates of Modern Orthodox high schools are no longer Shabbat- or kashrut– observant within two years of their graduation.

Another study from last year reported the not-quite-shocking news that 25% of those graduates who attend secular colleges assimilate during college and completely abandon Torah and mitzvot.

Although IMO they aren't going off for intellectual reasons, its not only tayvos either. A lot of it has to do with letzonus, the constant mockery of anything holy or special and the permissible - anything goes - attitudes that breaks down the defenses.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 08:59:27 PM by yitzf »

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So is it confirmed that college education was/is the single biggest threat to frumkeit? or was the lubavitcher rebbe being too fanatic about that?

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We dont need to go back to the 50's

r"l
https://www.ou.org/life/parenting/why-are-our-teens-going-off-derech-steven-pruzansky/
Although IMO they aren't going off for intellectual reasons, its not only tayvos either. A lot of it has to do with letzonus, the mockery of anything holy and or special and that breaks down the defenses.
there is rarely one reason alone, but elit can keep his head in the sand.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline elit

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If that is what you think happened with 100s maybe thousands of times the amount of people leaving yiddishkeit in college without the rebeliousness found in many current OTD kids then yes.
You are comparing Apple's to oranges
Going otd from college campusus of the 70s didn't require the pain because it wasn't anywhere near the degree of separation that we are talking about if anything it was embracing culture and social circles that they were more a part of then they were leaving

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You are comparing Apple's to oranges
Going otd from college campusus of the 70s didn't require the pain because it wasn't anywhere near the degree of separation that we are talking about if anything it was embracing culture and social circles that they were more a part of then they were leaving
Keep your head in the sand. I guess it is comfortable for you there.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline elit

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Keep your head in the sand. I guess it is comfortable for you there.
So we've moved on from your cognitive dissonance line to the head in the sand one. Nice.
#winningarguments

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So we've moved on from your cognitive dissonance line to the head in the sand one. Nice.
#winningarguments
They are the same thing. It was not only in colleges in the 70s and if you even put a small amount of effort you would know that. I am not denying that there is hurt involved but to deny the importance of other factors is simply silly and unhelpful to anyone.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline efflpetzel

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Talk about a thread going off the rails.....

Offline TimT

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Talk about a thread going off the rails.....
It's definitely swinging

Offline lechatchileh ariber

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I don't sin, I give myself opportunities to repent.

Offline mmgfarb

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It's definitely swinging
Pun intended?
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy