Poll

Would you pay an additional 30k + $140 YQ to try LY's new product if both UA and LY was available?

Yes
No
Undecided
Only ex-TLV (to get King David lounge entry)

Author Topic: El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread  (Read 169180 times)

Offline shaulyaakov

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 2781
  • Total likes: 326
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #140 on: June 12, 2017, 09:44:00 AM »
Also, I wonder if the retrofit will see 3-4-3 in econ ala united.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67601
  • Total likes: 16913
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #141 on: June 12, 2017, 09:45:05 AM »
Also, I wonder if the retrofit will see 3-4-3 in econ ala united.
I'd be surprised if it doesn't.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline shaulyaakov

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 2781
  • Total likes: 326
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #142 on: June 12, 2017, 09:47:03 AM »
Also, curious that LY bought so many 787 in the first place instead of mixing in some 777 next generation. Is it just for marketing, or is there an actual business gain from using smaller planes from these markets (EWR, lax etc)?

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67601
  • Total likes: 16913
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #143 on: June 12, 2017, 09:51:52 AM »
If I were LY I'd have 777s for heavy routes like EWR/JFK/LHR and 787s for thinner routes like BOS/HKG/LAX/MIA/ORD/YYZ. Maybe even TLV-SYD.
But they're LY so who knows. Clearly they're feeling a lot of pressure at EWR and the 787s are all they have to compete right now.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline yandmk

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 1959
  • Total likes: 254
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 28
    • View Profile
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #144 on: June 12, 2017, 09:54:45 AM »
Also, curious that LY bought so many 787 in the first place instead of mixing in some 777 next generation. Is it just for marketing, or is there an actual business gain from using smaller planes from these markets (EWR, lax etc)?
They will probably add frequency on routes like JFK in exchange for 747s and that will give them a BIG advantage over the competition. It's been that way until today and they're almost always full, so adding even more frequency won't due them much harm....

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67601
  • Total likes: 16913
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #145 on: June 12, 2017, 09:58:04 AM »
They will probably add frequency on routes like JFK in exchange for 747s and that will give them a BIG advantage over the competition. It's been that way until today and they're almost always full, so adding even more frequency won't due them much harm....
They will still have a frequency advantage over other airlines with 777s. Plus frequencies are expensive, especially with high labor costs, most people aren't willing to pay more.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline chff

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 5895
  • Total likes: 686
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 25
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC (not anymore)
  • Programs: All of them...
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #146 on: June 12, 2017, 10:00:53 AM »
My guess is that the will up the lowest business to around $3500 and put PE at the mid $2k (Compared to AC)

Offline ilherman

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 8935
  • Total likes: 227
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 35
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #147 on: June 12, 2017, 10:11:00 AM »
My guess is that the will up the lowest business to around $3500 and put PE at the mid $2k (Compared to AC)
Yeh, that makes sense. Thats around what j class is pricing right now.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline yandmk

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 1959
  • Total likes: 254
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 28
    • View Profile
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #148 on: June 12, 2017, 10:11:37 AM »
My guess is that the will up the lowest business to around $3500 and put PE at the mid $2k (Compared to AC)
Standard price for J was always $3500 besides for ex-TLV on the day flights

Offline ilherman

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 8935
  • Total likes: 227
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 35
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #149 on: June 12, 2017, 10:17:04 AM »
Yes. I disagree. Because they don't have first class anymore (which started at $6k+) they are likely to average out the price between the 2 cabins. They need to make up for the loss (though, I would note, that a very small percentage of F seats were sold out, and a large portion of those sold were for miles). Inventory change is not an issue, because they will be retrofitting their 777s in the near future. You need to realize, that since there are different fare classes currently in place on the 787, it's ok to charge different than on the the 777/747. If they sell 787 J for $3k, then what will they sell PE for, $1200? That's economy price. You don't have that fare class setup on the 777 (until they retrofit). It's no comparison to the UA 757 EWR - LAX or UA 84/90 where the cabins and fare classes stayed the same.
So you agree that F was not a huge profit at all, it went mostly for mileage or for upgrades. Now as chff pointed out. Put PE at 2k like all other airlines. Somewhere in the middle between Y and J.  You were talking about inventory change I guess you meant to say equipment change (are you a travel agent  ;) )  and you were saying the 777 will be retrofit soon, well I think it will take a while. In any case the fact that F is gone still doesn't answer why J class out of EWR should price differently than JFK. Heck until  now JFK had the much nicer 744 and they knew that people routinely paid a lot more to e on that flight and still they understood that J class should have the same price.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline chff

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 5895
  • Total likes: 686
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 25
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC (not anymore)
  • Programs: All of them...
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #150 on: June 12, 2017, 10:22:54 AM »
Standard price for J was always $3500 besides for ex-TLV on the day flights

My guess that the winter $3k price will go up to $3500 and the summer from $3500 to over $4000

Offline chff

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 5895
  • Total likes: 686
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 25
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC (not anymore)
  • Programs: All of them...
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #151 on: June 12, 2017, 10:23:45 AM »
In any case the fact that F is gone still doesn't answer why J class out of EWR should price differently than JFK. Heck until  now JFK had the much nicer 744 and they knew that people routinely paid a lot more to e on that flight and still they understood that J class should have the same price.

Code: [Select]
>FQDNYCTLV/ALY/IL/D4DEC17*4JAN17/CJ
FQDNYCTLV/ALY/IL/D4DEC17*4JAN17/CJ                                             
ROE 1.000000 NEAREST 1.00 USD                                                   
04DEC17*04JAN18/LY NYCTLV/NLX;AT/TPM  5659/MPM  6812                           
** FOR LY UPGRADE INFO SEE INFO NOTE LY/0310 **                                 
LN FARE BASIS    OW   USD  RT   B PEN  DATES/DAYS   AP MIN MAX R               
01 JSAPNYC                 2418 J  @  S20OCT  23MAR@21@SU@ 12M M               
02 JIPUS                   2920 J  @     -     -   @ - SU@ 12M M               
03 JUSIL                   3489 J  @     -     -   @ - SU@ 12M R               


>FQN1*FL
FL.FLT APPLICATION                                                             
                                                                               
  OUTBOUND -                                                                   
  THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON                                                 
      ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING                                             
        LY FLIGHT 002                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 004                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 008                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 014                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 022.                                                         
                                                                               
  AND - INBOUND -                                                               
  THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON                                                 
      ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING                                             
        LY FLIGHT 001                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 003                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 007                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 011                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 021.   

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 2569
  • Total likes: 294
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile

Offline yandmk

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 1959
  • Total likes: 254
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 28
    • View Profile
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #153 on: June 12, 2017, 01:49:37 PM »
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4974881,00.html
Quite sure that's "Rishon L'tzion", not Ashdod. Was the worst plane in their fleet.

Offline shaulyaakov

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 2781
  • Total likes: 326
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #154 on: June 12, 2017, 01:54:26 PM »
Wonder if we'll see a price war between LY and UA in Newark, or see UA speed up delivery on the 2nd new 777 for the route.

Offline yandmk

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 1959
  • Total likes: 254
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 28
    • View Profile
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #155 on: June 12, 2017, 02:05:46 PM »
or see UA speed up delivery on the 2nd new 777 for the route.
Please, Al tiftach peh....
(Most people still fly Y. To prove it, count the seats....)

Online yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 10482
  • Total likes: 3838
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 43
    • View Profile
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #156 on: June 12, 2017, 04:34:52 PM »
Please, Al tiftach peh....
(Most people still fly Y. To prove it, count the seats....)
Exactly.

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 14958
  • Total likes: 2421
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #157 on: June 12, 2017, 04:35:44 PM »
My guess that the winter $3k price will go up to $3500 and the summer from $3500 to over $4000
My guess is in the end they will have more planes, increase frequency and prices will stay stable or come down

EWR flight will probably be Z0J0 once the person responsible shows up for work
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline tavster

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 3573
  • Total likes: 724
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 65
    • View Profile
  • Location: Israel
  • Programs: LY TP
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #158 on: June 12, 2017, 07:00:41 PM »
In today's Globes, Maimon says: "The prices are subject to supply, demand, and competition, not to the introduction of new airplanes."

Not sure how aware he is of prices anyway

Offline shimino1

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 2411
  • Total likes: 133
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
    • View Profile
  • Location: israel
Re: Will the LY Dreamliner have a First Class cabin? (a little hint)
« Reply #159 on: June 12, 2017, 07:08:19 PM »
I think that Elal charging more for business class just because now they aren't miles behind the competition is like United charging more for promising not to beat the cr*p  out of you.