El Al 787 Dreamliner Master Thread

[shaulyaakov]

Also, I wonder if the retrofit will see 3-4-3 in econ ala united.

[Dan]

Also, I wonder if the retrofit will see 3-4-3 in econ ala united.

I'd be surprised if it doesn't.

[shaulyaakov]

Also, curious that LY bought so many 787 in the first place instead of mixing in some 777 next generation. Is it just for marketing, or is there an actual business gain from using smaller planes from these markets (EWR, lax etc)?

[Dan]

If I were LY I'd have 777s for heavy routes like EWR/JFK/LHR and 787s for thinner routes like BOS/HKG/LAX/MIA/ORD/YYZ. Maybe even TLV-SYD.
But they're LY so who knows. Clearly they're feeling a lot of pressure at EWR and the 787s are all they have to compete right now.

[yandmk]

Also, curious that LY bought so many 787 in the first place instead of mixing in some 777 next generation. Is it just for marketing, or is there an actual business gain from using smaller planes from these markets (EWR, lax etc)?

They will probably add frequency on routes like JFK in exchange for 747s and that will give them a BIG advantage over the competition. It's been that way until today and they're almost always full, so adding even more frequency won't due them much harm....

[Dan]

They will probably add frequency on routes like JFK in exchange for 747s and that will give them a BIG advantage over the competition. It's been that way until today and they're almost always full, so adding even more frequency won't due them much harm....

They will still have a frequency advantage over other airlines with 777s. Plus frequencies are expensive, especially with high labor costs, most people aren't willing to pay more.

[chff]

My guess is that the will up the lowest business to around $3500 and put PE at the mid $2k (Compared to AC)

[ilherman]

My guess is that the will up the lowest business to around $3500 and put PE at the mid $2k (Compared to AC)

Yeh, that makes sense. Thats around what j class is pricing right now.

[yandmk]

My guess is that the will up the lowest business to around $3500 and put PE at the mid $2k (Compared to AC)

Standard price for J was always $3500 besides for ex-TLV on the day flights

[ilherman]

Yes. I disagree. Because they don't have first class anymore (which started at $6k+) they are likely to average out the price between the 2 cabins. They need to make up for the loss (though, I would note, that a very small percentage of F seats were sold out, and a large portion of those sold were for miles). Inventory change is not an issue, because they will be retrofitting their 777s in the near future. You need to realize, that since there are different fare classes currently in place on the 787, it's ok to charge different than on the the 777/747. If they sell 787 J for $3k, then what will they sell PE for, $1200? That's economy price. You don't have that fare class setup on the 777 (until they retrofit). It's no comparison to the UA 757 EWR - LAX or UA 84/90 where the cabins and fare classes stayed the same.

So you agree that F was not a huge profit at all, it went mostly for mileage or for upgrades. Now as chff pointed out. Put PE at 2k like all other airlines. Somewhere in the middle between Y and J.  You were talking about inventory change I guess you meant to say equipment change (are you a travel agent  )  and you were saying the 777 will be retrofit soon, well I think it will take a while. In any case the fact that F is gone still doesn't answer why J class out of EWR should price differently than JFK. Heck until  now JFK had the much nicer 744 and they knew that people routinely paid a lot more to e on that flight and still they understood that J class should have the same price.

[chff]

Standard price for J was always $3500 besides for ex-TLV on the day flights

My guess that the winter $3k price will go up to $3500 and the summer from $3500 to over $4000

[chff]

In any case the fact that F is gone still doesn't answer why J class out of EWR should price differently than JFK. Heck until  now JFK had the much nicer 744 and they knew that people routinely paid a lot more to e on that flight and still they understood that J class should have the same price.

Code: [Select]

>FQDNYCTLV/ALY/IL/D4DEC17*4JAN17/CJ
FQDNYCTLV/ALY/IL/D4DEC17*4JAN17/CJ                                             
ROE 1.000000 NEAREST 1.00 USD                                                   
04DEC17*04JAN18/LY NYCTLV/NLX;AT/TPM  5659/MPM  6812                           
** FOR LY UPGRADE INFO SEE INFO NOTE LY/0310 **                                 
LN FARE BASIS    OW   USD  RT   B PEN  DATES/DAYS   AP MIN MAX R               
01 JSAPNYC                 2418 J  @  S20OCT  23MAR@21@SU@ 12M M               
02 JIPUS                   2920 J  @     -     -   @ - SU@ 12M M               
03 JUSIL                   3489 J  @     -     -   @ - SU@ 12M R               


>FQN1*FL
FL.FLT APPLICATION                                                             
                                                                               
  OUTBOUND -                                                                   
  THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON                                                 
      ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING                                             
        LY FLIGHT 002                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 004                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 008                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 014                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 022.                                                         
                                                                               
  AND - INBOUND -                                                               
  THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON                                                 
      ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING                                             
        LY FLIGHT 001                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 003                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 007                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 011                                                           
        LY FLIGHT 021.   


[mgarfin]

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4974881,00.html

[yandmk]

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4974881,00.html

Quite sure that's "Rishon L'tzion", not Ashdod. Was the worst plane in their fleet.

[shaulyaakov]

Wonder if we'll see a price war between LY and UA in Newark, or see UA speed up delivery on the 2nd new 777 for the route.

[yandmk]

or see UA speed up delivery on the 2nd new 777 for the route.

Please, Al tiftach peh....
(Most people still fly Y. To prove it, count the seats....)

[yelped]

Please, Al tiftach peh....
(Most people still fly Y. To prove it, count the seats....)

Exactly.

[PlatinumGuy]

My guess that the winter $3k price will go up to $3500 and the summer from $3500 to over $4000

My guess is in the end they will have more planes, increase frequency and prices will stay stable or come down

EWR flight will probably be Z0J0 once the person responsible shows up for work

[tavster]

In today's Globes, Maimon says: "The prices are subject to supply, demand, and competition, not to the introduction of new airplanes."

Not sure how aware he is of prices anyway

[shimino1]

I think that Elal charging more for business class just because now they aren't miles behind the competition is like United charging more for promising not to beat the cr*p  out of you.