Author Topic: New trend - Instant approval life insurance  (Read 6864 times)

Offline hachover

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2017, 02:00:27 PM »
Side question. If your existing policy expires in 6 months (paid in full) and you sign up for a new policy, does it begin when the other ends or does it begin now and you get a refund from the old policy?

They don't do replacements. You can cancel the old policy early and get a refund. You just have to do it yourself. If you have an existing policy it's going to count against the amount of insurance they think you should have (financial underwriting).

Total took about 4 weeks to get approved with Haven (required med exam and doc record). Within these 4 weeks I got my endorsement...

Sorry to hear you didn't get instant approval. I'm disappointed by how infrequently people are getting instant.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

Offline A3

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2017, 03:47:18 PM »
They don't do replacements. You can cancel the old policy early and get a refund. You just have to do it yourself. If you have an existing policy it's going to count against the amount of insurance they think you should have (financial underwriting).

Sorry to hear you didn't get instant approval. I'm disappointed by how infrequently people are getting instant.
No worries. Even though it wasn't instant, was still a pleasant experience... Got a good rate though.... I think...  Ultra Preferred Risk Class?

Recently lost 50lbs and once upon a time went to a doctor for asthma... I didn't want any grey area in this application.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 03:59:18 PM by A3 »

Offline ExGingi

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2017, 04:11:23 PM »
Didn't read yet, but waiting for ExGingi's comments.
I can't believe I missed this thread until today. Here are some comments:

IINM HavenLife is selling MassMutual policies.

Principal offers up to $1MM with only Tele-underwriting IF you fall within their guidelines for that program. Certain answers or things they find out might trigger additional underwriting requirements, such as doctor's records or an exam by a Paramedic (with or without body fluids).
Principal's program is considered FULLY UNDERWRITTEN and is available for (almost) any policy they sell.

If I currently have a policy with mass mutual at 1 level below preferred plus, I assume this application will pick that up and I won't be able to get the top level preference with Haven?
I don't know what HavenLife's program guidelines are. If a person was RATED or listed as a smoker, that will show up on an MIB search, getting preferred rather than Preferred Plus won't. The Tele-underwriting programs tend to do more backend underwriting than programs that require an examiner to come and do a physical exam. They will search more databases, more extensively and for lower face amounts.

They don't do replacements. You can cancel the old policy early and get a refund. You just have to do it yourself. If you have an existing policy it's going to count against the amount of insurance they think you should have (financial underwriting).

If you cancel a policy and apply for a new one within six months of cancellation, it is considered a replacement in the state of NY and requires Reg. 60 paperwork (PITA and many times useless IMHO).
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 06:13:23 PM by ExGingi »
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2017, 04:34:24 PM »
I can't believe I missed this thread until today. Here are some comments:

IINM HavenLife is selling MassMutual policies.

Principal offers up to $1MM with only Tele-underwriting IF you fall within their guidelines for that program. Certain answers or things they find out might trigger additional underwriting requirements, such as doctor's records or an exam by a Paramedic (with or without body fluids).
Principal's program is considered FULLY UNDERWRITTEN and is available for (almost) any policy they sell.
I don't know what HavenLife's program guidelines are. If a person was RATED or listed as a smoker, that will show up on an MIB search. The Tele-underwriting programs tend to do more backend underwriting than programs that require an examiner to come and do a physical exam. They will search more databases, more extensively and for lower face amounts.

If you cancel a policy and apply for a new one within six months of cancellation, it is considered a replacement in the state of NY and requires Reg. 60 paperwork (PITA and many times useless IMHO).
It's not a regular Mass policy. Haven is an 'in-house startup', wholly owned by Mass. The financial backing is the same (the policies are issued by Mass), but it's not the same policy as a regular Mass term product. There's no conversion to permanent Mass policies. Their product is also fully underwritten. Their limit is also $1m.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2017, 04:35:19 PM »
Sorry to hear you didn't get instant approval. I'm disappointed by how infrequently people are getting instant.
This is to be expected. It's going to take a while (ie a lot more data) to get to the point where they can do instant approval even half the time.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2017, 04:39:28 PM »
It's not a regular Mass policy. Haven is an 'in-house startup', wholly owned by Mass. The financial backing is the same (the policies are issued by Mass), but it's not the same policy as a regular Mass term product. There's no conversion to permanent Mass policies. Their product is also fully underwritten. Their limit is also $1m.
Which makes it a huge difference and INFERIOR to the Principal program, which is just a special underwriting program that gets a regular policy (convertible term or permanent). And while MassMutual is financially stronger, and might offer better permanent policies, if the HavenLife policy isn't convertible it doesn't make that much of a difference.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #66 on: July 07, 2017, 05:41:25 PM »
Which makes it a huge difference and INFERIOR to the Principal program, which is just a special underwriting program that gets a regular policy (convertible term or permanent). And while MassMutual is financially stronger, and might offer better permanent policies, if the HavenLife policy isn't convertible it doesn't make that much of a difference.
Meh - I'm not a big proponent fan of convertibility-as-necessity. Haven appears to be undercutting Principal on price (both in my anecdotal observations, and per the presenter I mentioned earlier), so it would come down to the valuing the convertibility relative to the difference in cost for a specific policy. I'm not saying I'd never pick the convertible option, but I probably wouldn't do it at a 10% premium.

Offline ExGingi

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I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Mikeoracle

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2017, 09:30:06 AM »
Just an update with my experience with Haven Life. I didnt use them for myself (as i already have a policy) I was helping a family member who is close to 60 get a term policy. They did need the medical exam done, but in the end approved a 15yr $250k policy with premiums lower than any other quote I got. (Around $300 less per year on average).

Thanks to the OP, as this was the push needed to finally get the coverage needed.

Offline hachover

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #69 on: July 24, 2017, 11:14:41 AM »
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/life-insurance-policy-medical-exam/

Hard to believe that the company responses will be public. The questions that NYDFS is asking are comparable to asking Coca Cola for their secret recipe (provide a specific breakdown of the program and any weights or scales assigned...)

While it makes sense that the regulators are taking up the case proactively for any possible consumer protection issues, I sincerely hope it doesn't end up stonewalling the progress companies are trying to make in terms of consumer experience when trying to buy a policy. It's a foregone conclusion that there is no actuarial basis for this type of underwriting, because by definition that requires a history of results. But there is solid statistical basis and the companies are willing to take a risk on that, and I hope that at worst this results in giving them guidelines to be allowed to continue to do so.

Of course, this is all just my own personal opinion, and I'm sure the companies in the industry have their own responses and advocates.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #70 on: July 24, 2017, 12:44:36 PM »
Just an update with my experience with Haven Life. I didnt use them for myself (as i already have a policy) I was helping a family member who is close to 60 get a term policy. They did need the medical exam done, but in the end approved a 15yr $250k policy with premiums lower than any other quote I got. (Around $300 less per year on average). It is also always recommended to look slightly above the quoted premium, as it might be that for a very small difference, more value can be obtained (in this case - convertibility).

Thanks to the OP, as this was the push needed to finally get the coverage needed.
I'll start from the end, and state that if this was the push needed to get coverage, that was a good thing.

However, as for the Haven Life being $300 less per year on a $250k policy than others, the only likely explanation is that others wouldn't quote best rates upfront, as those aren't that common close to age 60, they would rather quote high, and come back lower, than have to explain a higher price than quoted.

Since we don't know the exact age, gender, or underwriting class approved for with Haven, I will provide here a range of examples for males and females age 59 in underwriting classes standard non-smoker and better. In NONE of those cases is Haven the lowest quote. In quite a few, Principal is lower (and it's convertible - something that's even more important at this age, and makes the policy marketable for a life settlement in case there's a change in health, even if policyowner might not convert the policy themselves).

Female, Standard Non-Smoker


Male, Standard Non-Smoker


Female, Regular+ (Haven life doesn't have this classification)


Male, Regular+


Female, Preferred (Notice the Ohio National Quote  ;))


Male, Preferred


Female, Preferred Plus


Male, Preferred Plus


I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #71 on: July 24, 2017, 01:00:44 PM »
and it's convertible - something that's even more important at this age
If a policy is truly being bought for income replacement purposes (the level period here ends right around retirement age), and the level period covers the entire remaining working years, why would you need convertibility?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2017, 01:03:59 PM »
Hard to believe that the company responses will be public. The questions that NYDFS is asking are comparable to asking Coca Cola for their secret recipe (provide a specific breakdown of the program and any weights or scales assigned...)

While it makes sense that the regulators are taking up the case proactively for any possible consumer protection issues, I sincerely hope it doesn't end up stonewalling the progress companies are trying to make in terms of consumer experience when trying to buy a policy. It's a foregone conclusion that there is no actuarial basis for this type of underwriting, because by definition that requires a history of results. But there is solid statistical basis and the companies are willing to take a risk on that, and I hope that at worst this results in giving them guidelines to be allowed to continue to do so.

Interestingly, the article brings a LIMRA study about simplified underwriting. It should be noted, that the Haven Life and Principal programs are by no means considered simplified underwriting. They are considered fully underwritten policies, they are just using a different set of underwriting tools that a traditional exam.

Back in the early days of life insurance, underwriting was much more crude than it is today. Preferred risks didn't exist, and even non-smoker discounts weren't around if you go back just a few decades. Some of the tools used by Principal and Haven are used in traditional underwriting (at least for certain face amounts), Haven (and more so, Principal) have taken it to a different level.
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Offline Mikeoracle

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #73 on: July 24, 2017, 01:06:37 PM »
I wasnt basing it on general quotes, my LI agent took the medical exam/BW etc from this application and got actual quotes so we can compare apples to apples. He actually recommended going with Haven which he doesnt get commission of course because he couldnt beat it.
I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, the fact that this was the push made it all worth it.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: New trend - Instant approval life insurance
« Reply #74 on: July 24, 2017, 01:07:36 PM »
If a policy is truly being bought for income replacement purposes (the level period here ends right around retirement age), and the level period covers the entire remaining working years, why would you need convertibility?
Ask the client how they would feel if they were, חס ושלום, diagnosed with a terminal illness, or just otherwise seriously ill, just a year or two before the end of the level preiod, and had NO OPTIONS to continue the coverage beyond that period. For just $7 more (in one of the examples I posted) they could get similar coverage that would be convertible. Even if there's no way in the world they would convert, a convertible policy for an impaired risk person, that was issued on a preferred risk basis, has a free market value!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan