Author Topic: 1 day or 2 days in Israel  (Read 28279 times)

Offline zagguru

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2017, 06:34:11 AM »
I spent one YT in Eretz Yisroel.
At first I was very bothered, I researched the entire Sugya and it seemed that whatever I did I would get it wrong according to some respectable opinions.
After thinking through it many times I came to an understanding that whatever you do there are many merits and explanations for those opinions and as long as that's what your LOR told you to do, you're good.

I really dont think that there is a more machmir opinion in this case. Even keeping 2 days has its problems. You could be saying bracha levatala, missing out on tefilin, etc...
I dont see how one could say that keeping 1 or 2 would be the more machmir opinion. Both have strong opinions backing them up

Offline hvaces42

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2017, 07:18:12 AM »
I spent one YT in Eretz Yisroel.
At first I was very bothered, I researched the entire Sugya and it seemed that whatever I did I would get it wrong according to some respectable opinions.
After thinking through it many times I came to an understanding that whatever you do there are many merits and explanations for those opinions and as long as that's what your LOR told you to do, you're good.
As with everything...as long as you can blame someone and point fingers after 120...you're good. The LOR has to have plaeitzas or risk burning for your transgression. If your LOR is willing to go out on a limb and say one way or the other why should you care just follow his opinion and youre good.
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Offline Z56

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2017, 07:31:12 AM »
As with everything...as long as you can blame someone and point fingers after 120...you're good. The LOR has to have plaeitzas or risk burning for your transgression. If your LOR is willing to go out on a limb and say one way or the other why should you care just follow his opinion and youre good.

Well said
“I have nothing in common with lazy people who blame others for their lack of success. Great things come from hard work

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2017, 08:11:28 AM »
As with everything...as long as you can blame someone and point fingers after 120...you're good. The LOR has to have plaeitzas or risk burning for your transgression. If your LOR is willing to go out on a limb and say one way or the other why should you care just follow his opinion and youre good.
For some, missing a day of tefillin before 120 is far more worrisome than burning and finger pointing after 120

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2017, 08:15:16 AM »
The halacha is that unless you're a resident of Eretz Yisrael that isn't planning on returning to live permanently outside of Israel, you're required to keep two days of Yom Tov. I'm not sure how people go about the holidays.
Nice to finally see one topic that is so black and white on a forum that at its essence seems to be about always seeing things as "YMMV" and then finding nuances and opportunities to exploit

Online aygart

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2017, 08:17:23 AM »
Nice to finally see one topic that is so black and white on a forum that at its essence seems to be about always seeing things as "YMMV" and then finding nuances and opportunities to exploit
lol
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline koplonko

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2017, 08:33:14 AM »
על פי התורה אשר יורוך
That's basically the biblical source and power of ALOR. He might have it wrong, but you will be doing the right thing. As opposed to someone else who is not following his LOR is definitely doing it wrong

Offline koplonko

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2017, 08:34:04 AM »
on a forum hosted by a chabadsker at least acknowledge that chabad follows the baal hatanya and chacham tzvi and do 1 day in israel
-1

Offline hvaces42

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2017, 08:40:49 AM »
For some, missing a day of tefillin before 120 is far more worrisome than burning and finger pointing after 120
Huh?

Let's play this out...If the psak you get is 2 days and you feel you know better and worry about missing tefillin, then why did you ask? What you describe is chumrah culture, or, as we describe it in the real world, OCD.
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Offline Dan

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2017, 09:10:53 AM »
Nice to finally see one topic that is so black and white on a forum that at its essence seems to be about always seeing things as "YMMV" and then finding nuances and opportunities to exploit
:D
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2017, 09:11:10 AM »
Huh?

Let's play this out...If the psak you get is 2 days and you feel you know better and worry about missing tefillin, then why did you ask? What you describe is chumrah culture, or, as we describe it in the real world, OCD.
I wasn't arguing with you. You should definitely do exactly what your lor paskens. It was a visceral reaction to the how and why we do things rather than the actual halacha and/or minhag.

Offline Z56

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2017, 09:27:59 AM »
How can I add a poll in the wiki ?
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Offline moen

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2017, 09:39:38 AM »
Why don't we hear what JTZ has to say about this!!!!!! ;D

Offline hvaces42

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2017, 10:16:07 AM »
I wasn't arguing with you. You should definitely do exactly what your lor paskens. It was a visceral reaction to the how and why we do things rather than the actual halacha and/or minhag.
What does that mean? We do things based on the actual halacha and/or minhag that we receive from our parents and/or our LORs. And if they were incorrect in transmitting it to us then its on them, not on us to make our own decisions and worry about our own practices. If you do that then its on you. So worrying about not putting on tefillin when your parents and/or LOR set your path for you is not something that would ever come into consideration. Creating new chumrahs and frumkeiten seems to be all the rage but its just not how it works.
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Offline bestwatchman

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2017, 10:21:45 AM »
on a forum hosted by a chabadsker at least acknowledge that chabad follows the baal hatanya and chacham tzvi and do 1 day in israel
Sorry, it ain't b&w for chabad either. It's well known that there are two prominent Chabad Rabbonim who each hold differently on this. You go to the one who's answer you want to hear...
Personally I did two days except one Shavuos when I was in an Israeli program and totally forgot about the second day.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2017, 11:21:02 AM »
What does that mean? We do things based on the actual halacha and/or minhag that we receive from our parents and/or our LORs. And if they were incorrect in transmitting it to us then its on them, not on us to make our own decisions and worry about our own practices. If you do that then its on you. So worrying about not putting on tefillin when your parents and/or LOR set your path for you is not something that would ever come into consideration. Creating new chumrahs and frumkeiten seems to be all the rage but its just not how it works.

I should really let this go, as we are clearly having entirely an different discussion. But, seeing as you're the guy who tossed his salad over people not getting a joke*1, I worry you may have a nervous breakdown*2 if I don't explain it. So let me dig in and break it down.

You said:

As with everything...as long as you can blame someone and point fingers after 120...you're good. The LOR has to have plaeitzas or risk burning for your transgression. If your LOR is willing to go out on a limb and say one way or the other why should you care just follow his opinion and youre good.

I then responded that for some, the how and why of doing mitzvos and following halacha is not about "point[ing] fingers after 120" or "[the] risk [of] burning." I used "missing a day of tefillin" not to say that you should be worried about missing tefillin when your lor paskened to keep 2 days, but just as a pertinent example.

You then misunderstood my post, diagnosed me with a medical condition, and created an entire social phenomena or some sort chumra culture, condescendingly excluding me and others in this newly made demographic from the "real world" - which is ironic, being that said "real" world is referred to as "עלמא דשיקרא", and your original post makes reference to a post-120 world, which I'd assume means you ascribe to that being "the real world" - but I digress.

I then tried to explain, after your misunderstanding of my post, that it is not about extra chumras or even this issue of 1 or 2 days, but my post was merely a visceral reaction to the attitude merely getting the right psak to be able to assign blame after 120 and not to have to worry about burning in hell. So I made a little quip. That's it. Not an contrary opinion, not an argumentative post. Just a quip about attitudes in fulfilling mitzvos.

Then, you further misunderstood my explanation, and doubled down on on your judgmental stereotyping and pseudo psychology.

Then, I wrote this lengthy post, putting you and anyone else who bothers wasting their time reading it, through untold misery and confusion. But hey, I had fun writing it.

*1This post, too, is written jokingly. So by your standards, I assume you will not take offense.
*2I normally would not joke about such things, but after you diagnosed me with OCD I figured I might as well.


P.S. Apologies Tapatalk readers.

Offline MeirS

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2017, 11:21:09 AM »
on a forum hosted by a chabadsker at least acknowledge that chabad follows the baal hatanya and chacham tzvi and do 1 day in israel
-100
There are many varying sources in Chabad itself as to what's the correct way to do it.
-1
Thanks

Offline AsherO

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2017, 12:39:50 PM »
There are many varying sources in Chabad itself as to what's the correct way to do it. Thanks

Slightly on the topic, not as a halachic guide but an interesting tidbit nonetheless:

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=5498

As an aside, my father wasn't born in Israel, but lived there from age 9 to 20+ then lived in the USA. Through the years he follow the psak of (IINM) R' Yaakov Landau to keep two days. He'll be in Israel Pesach and plans on keeping two days. Thought the years it had become harder and harder in Chabad communities for him to find a YomTov minyan on the second day, many more people apparently rely on the Mekilim.
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Offline a mirrer

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2017, 06:13:54 AM »
Slightly on the topic, not as a halachic guide but an interesting tidbit nonetheless:

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=5498

As an aside, my father wasn't born in Israel, but lived there from age 9 to 20+ then lived in the USA. Through the years he follow the psak of (IINM) R' Yaakov Landau to keep two days. He'll be in Israel Pesach and plans on keeping two days. Thought the years it had become harder and harder in Chabad communities for him to find a YomTov minyan on the second day, many more people apparently rely on the Mekilim.
interesting my grandfather is chabad and does one day so i assumed that was the minhag in chabad

Offline Emkay

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2017, 06:19:18 AM »
Slightly on the topic, not as a halachic guide but an interesting tidbit nonetheless:

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=5498

As an aside, my father wasn't born in Israel, but lived there from age 9 to 20+ then lived in the USA. Through the years he follow the psak of (IINM) R' Yaakov Landau to keep two days. He'll be in Israel Pesach and plans on keeping two days. Thought the years it had become harder and harder in Chabad communities for him to find a YomTov minyan on the second day, many more people apparently rely on the Mekilim.
Both sides can be mekilim or machmirim.