Author Topic: 1 day or 2 days in Israel  (Read 3607 times)

Online Yehuda57

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2017, 09:11:10 AM »
Huh?

Let's play this out...If the psak you get is 2 days and you feel you know better and worry about missing tefillin, then why did you ask? What you describe is chumrah culture, or, as we describe it in the real world, OCD.
I wasn't arguing with you. You should definitely do exactly what your lor paskens. It was a visceral reaction to the how and why we do things rather than the actual halacha and/or minhag.
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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2017, 09:27:59 AM »
How can I add a poll in the wiki ?
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Offline moen

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2017, 09:39:38 AM »
Why don't we hear what JTZ has to say about this!!!!!! ;D

Offline hvaces42

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2017, 10:16:07 AM »
I wasn't arguing with you. You should definitely do exactly what your lor paskens. It was a visceral reaction to the how and why we do things rather than the actual halacha and/or minhag.
What does that mean? We do things based on the actual halacha and/or minhag that we receive from our parents and/or our LORs. And if they were incorrect in transmitting it to us then its on them, not on us to make our own decisions and worry about our own practices. If you do that then its on you. So worrying about not putting on tefillin when your parents and/or LOR set your path for you is not something that would ever come into consideration. Creating new chumrahs and frumkeiten seems to be all the rage but its just not how it works.
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Offline bestwatchman

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2017, 10:21:45 AM »
on a forum hosted by a chabadsker at least acknowledge that chabad follows the baal hatanya and chacham tzvi and do 1 day in israel
Sorry, it ain't b&w for chabad either. It's well known that there are two prominent Chabad Rabbonim who each hold differently on this. You go to the one who's answer you want to hear...
Personally I did two days except one Shavuos when I was in an Israeli program and totally forgot about the second day.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2017, 11:21:02 AM »
What does that mean? We do things based on the actual halacha and/or minhag that we receive from our parents and/or our LORs. And if they were incorrect in transmitting it to us then its on them, not on us to make our own decisions and worry about our own practices. If you do that then its on you. So worrying about not putting on tefillin when your parents and/or LOR set your path for you is not something that would ever come into consideration. Creating new chumrahs and frumkeiten seems to be all the rage but its just not how it works.

I should really let this go, as we are clearly having entirely an different discussion. But, seeing as you're the guy who tossed his salad over people not getting a joke*1, I worry you may have a nervous breakdown*2 if I don't explain it. So let me dig in and break it down.

You said:

As with everything...as long as you can blame someone and point fingers after 120...you're good. The LOR has to have plaeitzas or risk burning for your transgression. If your LOR is willing to go out on a limb and say one way or the other why should you care just follow his opinion and youre good.

I then responded that for some, the how and why of doing mitzvos and following halacha is not about "point[ing] fingers after 120" or "[the] risk [of] burning." I used "missing a day of tefillin" not to say that you should be worried about missing tefillin when your lor paskened to keep 2 days, but just as a pertinent example.

You then misunderstood my post, diagnosed me with a medical condition, and created an entire social phenomena or some sort chumra culture, condescendingly excluding me and others in this newly made demographic from the "real world" - which is ironic, being that said "real" world is referred to as "עלמא דשיקרא", and your original post makes reference to a post-120 world, which I'd assume means you ascribe to that being "the real world" - but I digress.

I then tried to explain, after your misunderstanding of my post, that it is not about extra chumras or even this issue of 1 or 2 days, but my post was merely a visceral reaction to the attitude merely getting the right psak to be able to assign blame after 120 and not to have to worry about burning in hell. So I made a little quip. That's it. Not an contrary opinion, not an argumentative post. Just a quip about attitudes in fulfilling mitzvos.

Then, you further misunderstood my explanation, and doubled down on on your judgmental stereotyping and pseudo psychology.

Then, I wrote this lengthy post, putting you and anyone else who bothers wasting their time reading it, through untold misery and confusion. But hey, I had fun writing it.

*1This post, too, is written jokingly. So by your standards, I assume you will not take offense.
*2I normally would not joke about such things, but after you diagnosed me with OCD I figured I might as well.


P.S. Apologies Tapatalk readers.
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Offline MeirS

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2017, 11:21:09 AM »
on a forum hosted by a chabadsker at least acknowledge that chabad follows the baal hatanya and chacham tzvi and do 1 day in israel
-100
There are many varying sources in Chabad itself as to what's the correct way to do it.
-1
Thanks

Offline AsherO

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2017, 12:39:50 PM »
There are many varying sources in Chabad itself as to what's the correct way to do it. Thanks

Slightly on the topic, not as a halachic guide but an interesting tidbit nonetheless:

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=5498

As an aside, my father wasn't born in Israel, but lived there from age 9 to 20+ then lived in the USA. Through the years he follow the psak of (IINM) R' Yaakov Landau to keep two days. He'll be in Israel Pesach and plans on keeping two days. Thought the years it had become harder and harder in Chabad communities for him to find a YomTov minyan on the second day, many more people apparently rely on the Mekilim.
PGF24BMGS

Offline a mirrer

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2017, 06:13:54 AM »
Slightly on the topic, not as a halachic guide but an interesting tidbit nonetheless:

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=5498

As an aside, my father wasn't born in Israel, but lived there from age 9 to 20+ then lived in the USA. Through the years he follow the psak of (IINM) R' Yaakov Landau to keep two days. He'll be in Israel Pesach and plans on keeping two days. Thought the years it had become harder and harder in Chabad communities for him to find a YomTov minyan on the second day, many more people apparently rely on the Mekilim.
interesting my grandfather is chabad and does one day so i assumed that was the minhag in chabad

Offline Emkay

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2017, 06:19:18 AM »
Slightly on the topic, not as a halachic guide but an interesting tidbit nonetheless:

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=5498

As an aside, my father wasn't born in Israel, but lived there from age 9 to 20+ then lived in the USA. Through the years he follow the psak of (IINM) R' Yaakov Landau to keep two days. He'll be in Israel Pesach and plans on keeping two days. Thought the years it had become harder and harder in Chabad communities for him to find a YomTov minyan on the second day, many more people apparently rely on the Mekilim.
Both sides can be mekilim or machmirim.

Offline Dan

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2017, 06:22:28 AM »
When I asked my Rov the shaila in 2010 he asked if I wanted to hold one day or 2 days  ;D

When I said I'd be staying by people doing one day he told me to call Rabbi Ashkenazi.

My Rov actually told his own son in yeshiva there to go to Eilat and do 2 days...
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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2017, 07:32:16 AM »
When I asked my Rov the shaila in 2010 he asked if I wanted to hold one day or 2 days  ;D

When I said I'd be staying by people doing one day he told me to call Rabbi Ashkenazi.
IMHO, one who lives with the Rebbe's sichos, would naturally want to keep 2 days Yomtov regardless of where that person is. As a matter of fact, such a person might feel רחמנות towards people that are Halachically required to keep only one day, and would try to avoid being in a situation that requires him to keep one day himself. I know of someone who lives in Kfar Chabad (though I believe he never accepted Israeli citizenship, despite his wife and kids all being born there) and keeps two days. I wouldn't call one way or the other a קולא or a חומרא, it's just a matter of perspective and actual Halachic ruling obtained.

The yeshiva in Tzfas, which has R' Isaac Landa as their Halachic authority, has minyanim and Yomtov seudos for non-Israelis.

A couple of years ago I was stuck in Eretz Yisroel for Shavuos without my family, that stayed in NY, and did two days (which I believe under the circumstances most Rabbonim would rule as the right thing) in a city where I must have been the only one keeping second day. There were definitely no special minyanim, and it was quite an odd experience.

Then there is also שיטת הרמב"ם, which IINM is דעת יחיד, that most places in Eretz Yisroel should still keep two days, as he holds that it's not whether שלוחי בית דין could have reached the area, but rather if they actually went to the place, and in case of doubt - keep 2 days.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 07:35:18 AM by ExGingi »
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Offline Dan

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2017, 07:41:38 AM »
And Rabbi Ashkenazi was adamant that the halacha is one day and doing two days causes you to make brachas lvatola and miss tefilin.

Strong arguments both ways on this one.

I've only been to Israel for a YT once.
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Offline zagguru

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2017, 07:50:18 AM »
And Rabbi Ashkenazi was adamant that the halacha is one day and doing two days causes you to make brachas lvatola and miss tefilin.

Strong arguments both ways on this one.

I've only been to Israel for a YT once.

I have heard of others who share the same opinion.

Offline MeirS

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Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2017, 08:54:25 AM »
IMHO, one who lives with the Rebbe's sichos, would naturally want to keep 2 days Yomtov regardless of where that person is. As a matter of fact, such a person might feel רחמנות towards people that are Halachically required to keep only one day, and would try to avoid being in a situation that requires him to keep one day himself. I know of someone who lives in Kfar Chabad (though I believe he never accepted Israeli citizenship, despite his wife and kids all being born there) and keeps two days. I wouldn't call one way or the other a קולא or a חומרא, it's just a matter of perspective and actual Halachic ruling obtained.

The yeshiva in Tzfas, which has R' Isaac Landa as their Halachic authority, has minyanim and Yomtov seudos for non-Israelis.

A couple of years ago I was stuck in Eretz Yisroel for Shavuos without my family, that stayed in NY, and did two days (which I believe under the circumstances most Rabbonim would rule as the right thing) in a city where I must have been the only one keeping second day. There were definitely no special minyanim, and it was quite an odd experience.

Then there is also שיטת הרמב"ם, which IINM is דעת יחיד, that most places in Eretz Yisroel should still keep two days, as he holds that it's not whether שלוחי בית דין could have reached the area, but rather if they actually went to the place, and in case of doubt - keep 2 days.
Well said!

OTOH, there's the מהדורה בתרא from the Alter Rebbe which says that these things have nothing to do with where you're from or where you're going rather with the המשכות and גילוי אור that shines at different times and different places.

It's amazing how in the first 4 Simanim the AR managed to discuss the second day YT issue.