Author Topic: 1 day or 2 days in Israel  (Read 3633 times)

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 6202
  • Total likes: 1084
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 7
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2017, 09:00:03 AM »
And Rabbi Ashkenazi was adamant that the halacha is one day and doing two days causes you to make brachas lvatola and miss tefilin.

Strong arguments both ways on this one.

Absolutely true.

Yomtov is the one of the best examples of how the power to determine the laws of yiddishkeit are in the hands of the Rabbis. (ישראל דקדשינהו לזמנים).

ועשית ככל אשר יורוך is a major cornerstone of yiddishkeit.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 54140
  • Total likes: 2623
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16441
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2017, 09:03:01 AM »

OTOH, there's the מהדורה בתרא from the Alter Rebbe which says that these things have nothing to do with where you're from or where you're going rather with the המשכות and גילוי אור that shines at different times and different places. .
Isn't that the logical conclusion?
After all, that's how it was bizman habayis.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline MeirS

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 2344
  • Total likes: 75
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2017, 09:16:25 AM »
Isn't that the logical conclusion?
After all, that's how it was bizman habayis.
Perhaps but he comes from a totally different angle. The AR started rewriting SA but we only have the first 4 Simanim that talk about waking up. In it he asks about Tikun Chatzos, how the עת רצון could be at different times in different places and to answer he brings an example from YT where different places keep YT different times and he explains it's because different גילויים at different times in different places. I believe this totally contradicts what he wrote in Hilchos YT and the opinion on most other Poskim on the matter.

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 6202
  • Total likes: 1084
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 7
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2017, 09:17:20 AM »
Isn't that the logical conclusion?
After all, that's how it was bizman habayis.
  • When one has shimush, one learns how to apply what they have learned. As long as one doesn't have it, one shouldn't follow their own logic but rather ask their LOR.
  • Not according to the Rambam.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 54140
  • Total likes: 2623
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16441
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2017, 09:18:10 AM »
I don't think anyone is arguing about asking.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 1898
  • Total likes: 68
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2017, 12:32:15 PM »
There are 3 primary shitos in this sugya

1- The Mechaber holds that it all has to do with where you resident and  if you plan to go back there (dayto lachzor)
2- The Shulchan Aruch HaRav brings a second shitah that you go by the place where you are at now.
3- the Chachm Tzvi held that in  Eretz Yisroel all are to hold 1 day even if dayto laczor, and in the diaspora, he held like the Mechaber


In the term used by the Mechaber dayto lachzor, there are lots of options on its interpretation.
How many years are you planning on staying?
If it's not finally possible for you to stay?
Are you getting all your money from other location?
Are you unmarried living on your parent's money so you need to ask?
And so on

Offline koplonko

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 167
  • Total likes: 33
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2017, 01:13:29 PM »
Then there is also שיטת הרמב"ם, which IINM is דעת יחיד, that most places in Eretz Yisroel should still keep two days, as he holds that it's not whether שלוחי בית דין could have reached the area, but rather if they actually went to the place, and in case of doubt - keep 2 days.
And the יודעי דבר say that behind the scenes, the Rebbe was trying to get the rabanut in Israel to implement it.
I know of someone who lives in Kfar Chabad (though I believe he never accepted Israeli citizenship, despite his wife and kids all being born there) and keeps two days. I wouldn't call one way or the other a קולא or a חומרא, it's just a matter of perspective and actual Halachic ruling obtained.
As did Reb Mendel Futerfas and others now as well, mainly from the group of שלוחי קודש
ETA: Reb Mendel might have been only about saying tefilas haderech

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 3119
  • Total likes: 42
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2017, 01:51:50 PM »
let's not confuse bochurim in yeshivah (similar to dan's situation) and someone who has a family back home (ex-gingi). there's a fundamentally different level of דעתו לחזור, which will come into the rov's psak.
(agav, in my days, rav ashkenazi would sometimes say תומכי תמימים איז א מאמע in connection with this psak)

regarding מהדורא בתרא while there are those who will pasken that way straight, I can't say i've heard of too many of those. most seem to go back and forth on the דעתו לחזור definitions (and the מענות...) I don't know why that is, whether it's considered unsure that מה"ב was intended as final psak, or if they're merely interpreting that one's hamshachos flow through their "home base שר"?

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 54140
  • Total likes: 2623
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16441
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2017, 01:58:52 PM »
Clearly Chabad is different as any Lubavitcher worth his salt has in full mind that Moshiach will come that YT and doesn't intend on returning ;)
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 1898
  • Total likes: 68
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2017, 02:08:55 PM »
Clearly Chabad is different as any Lubavitcher worth his salt has in full mind that Moshiach will come that YT and doesn't intend on returning ;)

As far is I know thats part of the 13 Ani ma'amin (ikrum)

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 54140
  • Total likes: 2623
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16441
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2017, 02:10:16 PM »
Well then who intends on returning to chu"l?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 1898
  • Total likes: 68
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2017, 02:14:26 PM »
I think Rav J.B. Soloveitchik paskened that you go by the place where you are at now.

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 1898
  • Total likes: 68
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2017, 02:16:49 PM »
Well then who intends on returning to chu"l?

No true believer, and still the Mechber puts it as what you're intention on returning

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 20565
  • Total likes: 126
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 74
    • View Profile
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2017, 04:20:47 PM »
No true believer, and still the Mechber puts it as what you're intention on returning

He must have written shu"a for the kofrim....

Reminds me of a joke:

Someone asked a Kohen Am Haaretz if he knows the meaning of each word in birchas kohanim, the Kohen replied in the affirmative.

So the guy asks the Kohen: "What does V'ychuneka mean?" So the Kohen says "and he should choke you".

So the guy looks at the Kohen startled: "What? Is that what you bless the people with?"

So the Kohen responds: "No, by v'ychuneka I think about the Goyim"

😁😁
PGF24BMGS

Offline username

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 4062
  • Total likes: 286
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: C Heights
  • Programs: ┌──────────────────┐ │───> Ữ₴ΣЯИΛΜӘ <─── │ └──────────────────┘
Re: 1 day or 2 days in Israel
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2017, 04:32:02 PM »
^^^
True story.
^^^