Author Topic: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!  (Read 49032 times)

Offline Emkay

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #105 on: April 04, 2017, 03:53:06 PM »
Take a second look. There are some big  respected names out there.
I have long ago learnt that unfortunately that doesn't mean much.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #106 on: April 04, 2017, 03:56:20 PM »
True. The following statement is made with no hate or disregard. My guess, is that you are Lubavitch. From my understanding Lubavitchers are extremely makpid on specific food related aspects of pesach that many others may not be. This seems to the issue you have with these program, we'll that's how I understand it at least. I feel like many of us who are not as "pro" these programs, have many different reasons behind it.

While the food is definitely an issue (and I am sure that every person or family has their own הקפדות for Pesach, even my BIL and I are makpid in different ways), it if far from being the only issue. I did make a clear distinction between the "luxury" programs which I am positive aren't in the spirit of anything I would be willing to attend at any price (paid to me), and other programs which I am not likely to attend, but am not making a blanket statement ruling out without knowing the specifics.

I think that a program that could allow for people to do their own cooking with their own food, would by definition cater to a different kind of crowd, and have a different kind of atmosphere, but this is pure speculation.
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Offline Emkay

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #107 on: April 04, 2017, 04:05:16 PM »



I think that a program that could allow for people to do their own cooking with their own food

They have those already. 95% of practicing yidden participate in those actually.

Offline Dan

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #108 on: April 04, 2017, 04:05:46 PM »

They have those already. 95% of practicing yidden participate in those actually.
LOL
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #109 on: April 04, 2017, 04:47:23 PM »
There are 2 things to look at

1- Kashrus, which is a much bigger challenge on Pesach. In hotels in particular for varied reasons, the size, the menu needed, the staff, and the usually nonkosher establishment. On Pesach, small mistakes can pose a much bigger problem halachically.

2- Minhug, of not eating out on Pesach. Though its originates to eliminate the kashrus issue, it is still a minuhg.


Offline hvaces42

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #110 on: April 04, 2017, 04:53:10 PM »
Just curious...How does one who attends a program truly fulfill bedukas chametz/ biur chametz? Do they have a ceremonial biur chametz event erev pesach at the hotel?

Doesnt it cross anyones mind that kids can grow up and never know you make a bracha for bedikas chametz? Or kids not knowing how to put up a sukkah for those that go away for sukkos?

What about teaching kids that you have to work to put together a yom tov and not just write a check. What of the enjoyment of sitting down to a seder knowing that your efforts were appreciated. There are so many interpersonal, marital, religious and other experiences that can be taken from a seder that cannot be replicated at a program.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #111 on: April 04, 2017, 04:57:46 PM »
I have done it both ways as my grandparents were always in a hotel for pesach since at least the 50s. I went to a much more benign and heimish hotel without all the really crazy stuff. It was still not nearly as enjoyable as pesach at home. When we went after I got married my wife absolutely HATED it.
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Offline Menachem613

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #112 on: April 04, 2017, 04:58:58 PM »
Just curious...How does one who attends a program truly fulfill bedukas chametz/ biur chametz? Do they have a ceremonial biur chametz event erev pesach at the hotel?

Doesnt it cross anyones mind that kids can grow up and never know you make a bracha for bedikas chametz? Or kids not knowing how to put up a sukkah for those that go away for sukkos?

What about teaching kids that you have to work to put together a yom tov and not just write a check. What of the enjoyment of sitting down to a seder knowing that your efforts were appreciated. There are so many interpersonal, marital, religious and other experiences that can be taken from a seder that cannot be replicated at a program.

How would you know if they can be replicated at a program? I infer you haven't gone to a Pesach program. 

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #113 on: April 04, 2017, 04:59:21 PM »
There are 2 things to look at

1- Kashrus, which is a much bigger challenge on Pesach. In hotels in particular for varied reasons, the size, the menu needed, the staff, and the usually nonkosher establishment. On Pesach, small mistakes can pose a much bigger problem halachically.

2- Minhug, of not eating out on Pesach. Though its originates to eliminate the kashrus issue, it is still a minuhg.
Kashrus is a huge issue. I would venture a guess that most programs, even the best hechsheirim, end up having at least one major issue over yom tov. I've spoken to many head mashgichim about this.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #114 on: April 04, 2017, 05:03:44 PM »
How would you know if they can be replicated at a program? I infer you haven't gone to a Pesach program.
Yes, you're correct. The ad hominem attack is right on point.
However, You still havent addressed how you can replicate it or any other issue raised.
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Offline Menachem613

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #115 on: April 04, 2017, 05:06:17 PM »
Yes, you're correct. The ad hominem attack is right on point.
However, You still havent addressed how you can replicate it or any other issue raised.

You're asking me to justify a subjective standard. There's no way to respond to that.

Offline yoohoo

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #116 on: April 04, 2017, 05:09:14 PM »
While the food is definitely an issue (and I am sure that every person or family has their own הקפדות for Pesach, even my BIL and I are makpid in different ways), it if far from being the only issue. I did make a clear distinction between the "luxury" programs which I am positive aren't in the spirit of anything I would be willing to attend at any price (paid to me), and other programs which I am not likely to attend, but am not making a blanket statement ruling out without knowing the specifics.

I think that a program that could allow for people to do their own cooking with their own food, would by definition cater to a different kind of crowd, and have a different kind of atmosphere, but this is pure speculation.
so basically, you have to clean your house, kasher your kitchen, shop for groceries, cook/bake, pack it all up to go, packup your family and be busy with menus/warming food the whole yt.......no thanks

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #117 on: April 04, 2017, 05:17:54 PM »

Doesnt it cross anyones mind that kids can grow up and never know you make a bracha for bedikas chametz? Or kids not knowing how to put up a sukkah for those that go away for sukkos?

For similar reasons, I used to take my Kapporos chickens home with me to Kasher and serve for Seuda Mafsekes for quite a few years. It was a special experience for the kids, and I even had friend and neighbors who heard about it bring their kids over, so that they see that there's a real kashering process required. (I also found this to be more palatable than knowing that the chickens go straight to the garbage when left at the kapporos place). I haven't done it in the last 2 or 3 years, but might go back to doing it so younger kids should also see it.
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Offline JTZ

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #118 on: April 04, 2017, 05:18:30 PM »
My values are not for sale at any price!
I knew I would find something I liked about you.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #119 on: April 04, 2017, 05:24:12 PM »
You're asking me to justify a subjective standard. There's no way to respond to that.
How in heaven's name are you calling it subjective? Its a fact. How does a husband show appreciation to his wife for making yom tov beautiful when sitting at the hotel seder?

What about teaching kids that you have to work to put together a yom tov and not just write a check? Thats subjective?

How old are you? Are you married?
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