Author Topic: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!  (Read 78226 times)

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #120 on: April 04, 2017, 05:28:59 PM »
For similar reasons, I used to take my Kapporos chickens home with me to Kasher and serve for Seuda Mafsekes for quite a few years. It was a special experience for the kids, and I even had friend and neighbors who heard about it bring their kids over, so that they see that there's a real kashering process required. (I also found this to be more palatable than knowing that the chickens go straight to the garbage when left at the kapporos place). I haven't done it in the last 2 or 3 years, but might go back to doing it so younger kids should also see it.

I think you should start getting the whole fish at the market so your kids can identify what makes it kosher as well

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #121 on: April 04, 2017, 05:31:29 PM »
How in heaven's name are you calling it subjective? Its a fact. How does a husband show appreciation to his wife for making yom tov beautiful when sitting at the hotel seder?

What about teaching kids that you have to work to put together a yom tov and not just write a check? Thats subjective?

How old are you? Are you married?

You need your wife to break her back and work like a dog in order for you to show her appreciation? Are you sadist?

Regarding teaching children, they are well aware of the costs of going away and cleaning work they are missing.  I remind them of the cost and their friends remind them of how hard they are working.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #122 on: April 04, 2017, 05:32:27 PM »
I think you should start getting the whole fish at the market so your kids can identify what makes it kosher as well

Better yet, raise your own chickens year round.

Offline sky121

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #123 on: April 04, 2017, 05:33:22 PM »
For similar reasons, I used to take my Kapporos chickens home with me to Kasher and serve for Seuda Mafsekes for quite a few years. It was a special experience for the kids, and I even had friend and neighbors who heard about it bring their kids over, so that they see that there's a real kashering process required. (I also found this to be more palatable than knowing that the chickens go straight to the garbage when left at the kapporos place). I haven't done it in the last 2 or 3 years, but might go back to doing it so younger kids should also see it.

That's great. We def could use more of that in the way we raise kids these days.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline sky121

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #124 on: April 04, 2017, 05:34:29 PM »
Better yet, raise your own chickens year round.

You joke. But honestly you'd be surprised at how kids don't connect what they are eating towards that chicken running around.

And I think that's an issue as well.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline as2

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #125 on: April 04, 2017, 05:35:00 PM »
You need your wife to break her back and work like a dog in order for you to show her appreciation? Are you sadist?

Regarding teaching children, they are well aware of the costs of going away and cleaning work they are missing.  I remind them of the cost and their friends remind them of how hard they are working.
I'll just assume this post was completely facetious and be done. To say that those of us who oppose the hotels, sound jealous... It sounds like you don't understand life because money pays for anything that comes up. Your kids understand preparing for YT because they hear about it from their friends?! Wow.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline sky121

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #126 on: April 04, 2017, 05:37:41 PM »
How in heaven's name are you calling it subjective? Its a fact. How does a husband show appreciation to his wife for making yom tov beautiful when sitting at the hotel seder?

What about teaching kids that you have to work to put together a yom tov and not just write a check? Thats subjective?

How old are you? Are you married?

While I myself am not a hotel person I don't think you "need to make your wife work" just to be able to show her appreciation.

And to play devils advocate here... if you're teaching your kids to work all year round- leaving for one yom tov for the year isn't going to "ruin" them.   

And further more- the point of yomtov- was not to show your wife appreciation nor was it to teach your kids hard work.

Those are just added bonuses :)
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #127 on: April 04, 2017, 05:40:52 PM »
I'll just assume this post was completely facetious and be done. To say that those of us who oppose the hotels, sound jealous... It sounds like you don't understand life because money pays for anything that comes up. Your kids understand preparing for YT because they hear about it from their friends?! Wow.

I've said earlier that we have stayed home many times so my kids do understand. But even if I didn't, does understanding always require doing? It's not rocket science.

Have you gone away for Pesach and decided that staying home is better for the kids or are you staying home because you cannot afford to go away and are now trying to level the playing field?


Offline as2

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #128 on: April 04, 2017, 05:42:19 PM »
I've said earlier that we have stayed home many times so my kids do understand. But even if I didn't, does understanding always require doing? It's not rocket science.

Have you gone away for Pesach and decided that staying home is better for the kids or are you staying home because you cannot afford to go away and are now trying to level the playing field?
My parents told me what it was like to go to hotels for pesach so I get what it's all about.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #129 on: April 04, 2017, 05:42:51 PM »
I've said earlier that we have stayed home many times so my kids do understand. But even if I didn't, does understanding always require doing? It's not rocket science.
A lot of things are not rocket science but there is no substitute for hands on experience.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #130 on: April 04, 2017, 05:43:01 PM »
I'll just assume this post was completely facetious and be done. To say that those of us who oppose the hotels, sound jealous... It sounds like you don't understand life because money pays for anything that comes up. Your kids understand preparing for YT because they hear about it from their friends?! Wow.
+1

It was nebech not facetious. Money pays for everything. Of course I'm jealous that i cant lay back and let someone else do the hard work. But I'm also grateful that I can and do contribute. Not only my wife works hard I do too. And when you sit down to the seder with a feeling of accomplishment, there is nothing like it. I cannot imagine what it would be like sitting down after having written that check or swiped that card and not having lifted a finger in preparation for yom tov. I would probably be sick to my stomach. Thats subjective. 
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #131 on: April 04, 2017, 05:44:09 PM »
A lot of things are not rocket science but there is no substitute for hands on experience.
And the Goy gets the win!
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Offline moko

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #132 on: April 04, 2017, 05:44:42 PM »
Quote from: hvaces42 ilink=topic=76224.msg1711285#msg1711285 date=1491339561
Kashrus is a huge issue. I would venture a guess that most programs, even the best hechsheirim, end up having at least one major issue over yom tov. I've spoken to many head mashgichim about this.
IME, kashrus needs to be split in to two categories.
1. Basic kashrus (treif venue, kashering, basar bchalav, treif, chometz, etc.)
2. Hilchos shabbos & Yom tov

In my years of experience any hotel that has kashrus concerns with the first category has a lousy hashgacha with poor planning , lack of cooperation, and not enough mashgichim.
On the other hand I would say that even the best kashrus at hotels use some kilos in terms of Hilchos shabbos and YT

Offline sky121

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #133 on: April 04, 2017, 05:46:12 PM »
I've said earlier that we have stayed home many times so my kids do understand. But even if I didn't, does understanding always require doing? It's not rocket science.

Have you gone away for Pesach and decided that staying home is better for the kids or are you staying home because you cannot afford to go away and are now trying to level the playing field?

You seem very defensive. I think both sides need to take an understanding of the other side.


 And no I'll argue here that if you never had to make Pesach than even someone explaining it to you won't really give you even close to the  full effect of what it really entails.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Eliyohu

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #134 on: April 04, 2017, 05:47:12 PM »
My parents told me what it was like to go to hotels for pesach so I get what it's all about.
Same here but I was still jealous of my freinds who went... as @JTZ said so eloquently ...
A lot of things are not rocket science but there is no substitute for hands on experience.

Offline sky121

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #135 on: April 04, 2017, 05:47:34 PM »
+1

It was nebech not facetious. Money pays for everything. Of course I'm jealous that i cant lay back and let someone else do the hard work. But I'm also grateful that I can and do contribute. Not only my wife works hard I do too. And when you sit down to the seder with a feeling of accomplishment, there is nothing like it. I cannot imagine what it would be like sitting down after having written that check or swiped that card and not having lifted a finger in preparation for yom tov. I would probably be sick to my stomach. Thats subjective.

That being said, can you appreciate how someone else might be ok and even happy to not have to do the work and sit down to  meal prepared for them and still have a beautiful meaningful seder?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #136 on: April 04, 2017, 05:48:02 PM »
A lot of things are not rocket science but there is no substitute for hands on experience.

How many years is sufficient to gain the required hands on experience?

Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #137 on: April 04, 2017, 05:48:34 PM »
I think most of you are missing what I and a couple of others had mentioned that there is a very wide range of pesach programs. The over-the-top ones are exactly that and I have a feeling that many here are considering them all to be that way. Many are not. Even those are not for are not for everyone but are not the way some here are describing them. Plenty of gashmius but mostly in the food department.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline moko

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #138 on: April 04, 2017, 05:48:43 PM »
I think you should start getting the whole fish at the market so your kids can identify what makes it kosher as well
when I learned nikkur I used to bring home the "treif" skirt steaks, hanger steaks, and 12th rib which that particular hashgacha didn't allow. I was menaker and moleiach them at home with my kids. When we did nikkur on a whole rosh keves , now that was quite am experience for her.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #139 on: April 04, 2017, 05:48:54 PM »
+1

It was nebech not facetious. Money pays for everything. Of course I'm jealous that i cant lay back and let someone else do the hard work. But I'm also grateful that I can and do contribute. Not only my wife works hard I do too. And when you sit down to the seder with a feeling of accomplishment, there is nothing like it. I cannot imagine what it would be like sitting down after having written that check or swiped that card and not having lifted a finger in preparation for yom tov. I would probably be sick to my stomach. Thats subjective.

I hope you don't have any cleaning help. That would take away from your sense of satisfaction?