Author Topic: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!  (Read 66092 times)

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2050
  • Total likes: 271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #180 on: April 04, 2017, 06:15:38 PM »
I think eating matza in a bag is stupid and terrible chinuch.. gebrokhts is a chumra, stop going crazy over it. Chabad is machmir while aknowledging its not an issue.

Want chinuch ? take your kids to bake matza, let em sweat not some russian babushka's..

Offline sky121

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 11429
  • Total likes: 139
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #181 on: April 04, 2017, 06:16:22 PM »
Yes I can. And some of my wife's family goes away. And my Brother-In-Law ( who goes) said to me last week: " There is going to be a whole generation that doesn't know what eating Matzah over a bag is ( his family Minhag, not mine). Clearly the Chinuch aspect is lost this way...

If it's important to you, you can try to teach your kids x y and z.

The same way kids won't know what it's like to have to wait for film to be developed. Or better yet, most kids now will never know what it's like to have to stop and ask for directions.

You can choose to not give your kids a cell phone.
I actually hope when I get to that point I can somehow swing that.
And you can be right that kids will be 'losing' something by never having that experience.
But would you say it's wrong of the parent?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline hvaces42

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 862
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #182 on: April 04, 2017, 06:17:57 PM »
Also my host makes chumus, i'm eating it. I much rather eat kitniyot or laffa matza than the crap made these days
Hillel definitely had lamb schwarma in a laffa with charif.
Fair warning - Any PMs sent in response to forum posts are fair game for ridicule in public.

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2050
  • Total likes: 271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #183 on: April 04, 2017, 06:18:07 PM »
Can always count on you to take this off the rails, Chevron ;)

Dan,
I was addressing how things evolve, comments about non pesach style food that is the frum norm are funny when you consider what was historically the norm is now assur.

If we ate kitniyot and soft fresh matza, we'd have none of this craziness (and far less gas in shull)

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5391
  • Total likes: 681
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #184 on: April 04, 2017, 06:20:05 PM »
If it's important to you, you can try to teach your kids x y and z.

The same way kids won't know what it's like to have to wait for film to be developed. Or better yet, most kids now will never know what it's like to have to stop and ask for directions.

You can choose to not give your kids a cell phone.
I actually hope when I get to that point I can somehow swing that.
And you can be right that kids will be 'losing' something by never having that experience.
But would you say it's wrong of the parent?
I do agree with your statement, but there is a fine line between adapting to the times, and taking the tradition out of something. People ate their sedarim by candle/lamp light, not in spirit of YT but because that was how you lit a room up. We now use light bulbs, because times have changed. There is a difference here.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2050
  • Total likes: 271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #185 on: April 04, 2017, 06:20:14 PM »
Hillel definitely had lamb schwarma in a laffa with charif.

The Koreh
̣
 non-Proof
A logical place to start is with activities that take place at the seder. Be-
cause of a debate in the gemara (
Pesah
̣
im
 115a) as to how best to eat mat-
zah  and 
marror
,  the  conclusion  is  that  we  should  fulfill  both  opinions. 
Korekh,  the  making  of  a  sandwich  of  matzah  and  marror,
was  thus  in-
cluded in the
seder
. It has been suggested that the word “korekh” means
“roll  up,”  as  in  a  shwarma  sandwich,  with  soft,  laffa-like  matzah  rolled 
with the meat of the Korban Pesah
̣
3
 and the
marror
 inside, thus offering
incontrovertible proof that Hillel used soft matza. While that may be true,
korekh is not a definitive proof.
The  contemporary  practice  (e.g., 
Arukh  ha-Shulh
̣
an
  OH
̣
  475:7)  is  to 
surround  the 
marror
  with  matzah.  However,  not  everyone  understands 
korekh  that  way.  Rabbenu  H
̣
annanel  (
Pesah
̣
im
  115a)  and  the  Sefer  ha-
H
̣
inukh (21) describe the
marror
 wrapped over and surrounding the mat-
zah. The
Mishnat Ya‘akov
 (475) points out that this was possible only for
those who used leaves for marror, as opposed to many Ashkenazim who used  horseradish.
4
  Additionally,  even  the  initial  linguistic  assumption  is 
likely incorrect. While the root korekh is often used to mean “wrap,” it
can also have the meaning of “surround.” For example, a walled city is
called a “krach” because it is surrounded by a wall, and the hard binding
surrounding a book is a krikhah. Thus, korekh could involve surrounding
the
marror
  with  hard  matzah,  much  as  the  city  is  surrounded  by  a  hard 
wall. The haggadah section of korekh offers no proof one way or the other
as  to  the  kind  of  matzah  used.  Nonetheless,  the  following  proofs  will 
show that Talmudic-era matzah and bread were indeed soft and thus Tal-
mudic phrases such as “karikht rifta” for sitting down to eat a meal did in
fact probably mean to wrap a sandwich as is done with a laffa. 
3
      The      Tosefta      (
Pesah
̣
im
 2:14) implies that meat of the Korban Pesah
̣
 was included,
and that is what Rashi and the Rashbam say. Rambam seems to say otherwise.
See Taz (475:9) and Rabbi Menachem Kasher,
Hagadah Shelemah
, p. 169, n. 1.

Offline hvaces42

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 862
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #186 on: April 04, 2017, 06:22:35 PM »
If it's important to you, you can try to teach your kids x y and z.

You can choose to not give your kids a cell phone.
I actually hope when I get to that point I can somehow swing that.

Sounds like you have little ones. Trust me thats the least of yoir issues when they grow up.
Fair warning - Any PMs sent in response to forum posts are fair game for ridicule in public.

Offline sky121

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 11429
  • Total likes: 139
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #187 on: April 04, 2017, 06:22:42 PM »
I do agree with your statement, but there is a fine line between adapting to the times, and taking the tradition out of something. People ate their sedarim by candle/lamp light, not in spirit of YT but because that was how you lit a room up. We now use light bulbs, because times have changed. There is a difference here.
Do you agree with the following?

1. Someone could go to a Pesach hotel - (even one of the more $$ ones) and have a very meaningful Pesach?
2. Just because it's not what you think is ideal or what you choose to do that it's not wrong?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline sky121

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 11429
  • Total likes: 139
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #188 on: April 04, 2017, 06:23:58 PM »
Sounds like you have little ones. Trust me thats the least of yoir issues when they grow up.

Lol  was just an ex. :)

We live in crazy times. I'm so glad I'm not a teenager these days. I feel like I just missed so many of the crazy things I would have had to deal with growing up.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline mgarfin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 2169
  • Total likes: 158
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #189 on: April 04, 2017, 06:24:33 PM »
There was something we always learned and teach our kids from Pesach.
This is something that in today's world is one of the biggest challenges to kids being taught on how to survive the world.

MODERATION

The limits imposed on our eating habits on Pesach have a huge effect on the upbringing of our children.
Today's kids' are brought up with having everything instantly. We have yet to see the effect this will have on society.

At a hotel, it's not possible to teach this. At home, it's at least possible.


Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5391
  • Total likes: 681
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #190 on: April 04, 2017, 06:24:53 PM »
Do you agree with the following?

1. Someone could go to a Pesach hotel - (even one of the more $$ ones) and have a very meaningful Pesach?
2. Just because it's not what you think is ideal or what you choose to do that it's not wrong?
100% I completely acknowledge that this is a personal feeling I have towards this idea and I do happen to share it with some others here. I have nothing against anyone who goes, nor would I judge them, but the argument I was having was with regards to the ones who seemed to put down those of us who were not fans of the idea.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 11214
  • Total likes: 5139
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #191 on: April 04, 2017, 06:24:54 PM »
Hillel definitely had lamb schwarma in a laffa with charif.
charif? Source?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Menachem613

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 1022
  • Total likes: 50
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #192 on: April 04, 2017, 06:25:23 PM »
This reminds me of the conversation I had with people who are debating whether the CPA exam or Bar exam is harder. I ask, have you taken both? The answer is almost always "no" but they are still sure of themselves.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 57931
  • Total likes: 5574
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #193 on: April 04, 2017, 06:26:06 PM »
This reminds me of the conversation I had with people who are debating whether the CPA exam or Bar exam is harder. I ask, have you taken both? The answer is almost always "no" but they are still sure of themselves.
Maybe one of their parents took one ;)

Having been to both, I can say I don't think programs are ideal. But sometimes people need a break. The kids will survive.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5391
  • Total likes: 681
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #194 on: April 04, 2017, 06:28:06 PM »
This reminds me of the conversation I had with people who are debating whether the CPA exam or Bar exam is harder. I ask, have you taken both? The answer is almost always "no" but they are still sure of themselves.
The difference here is, that we are dealing with facts here, not opinion. What we are arguing about, is how these facts effect us. And there is no one answer to that.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.