Author Topic: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!  (Read 66110 times)

Offline jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 11331
  • Total likes: 1616
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8015
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #390 on: April 20, 2017, 04:51:53 PM »
I guess this must apply to you too:
Do you understand how little sense your story makes? I know a very rich person who spends thousands of dollars on cleaning help and his house is more clean than someone who cleans it themselves.

Therefore rich people are generally more mehudar when it comes to cleaning for Pesach.

Are you being serious right now?

I gotta say a logical reasons LSAT course can teach more logic than decades of gemara apparently. Oh no wait that must be wrong, nothing will ever be gained from learning something secular.
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline stooges44

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 5769
  • Total likes: 1431
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 260
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #391 on: April 20, 2017, 04:53:48 PM »
Haven't had such odd non-sequitur, hard to decipher the point of, holier-than-thou, circular logic responses since CBC in his feistier era before Chaikel suspended him.
I honestly don't know why I bother.

Now you're talking! Can't understand this meaningless back and forth either.
If it's not free shipping it's not worth it.

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2119
  • Total likes: 3450
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #392 on: April 20, 2017, 04:54:21 PM »
If one eats Chometz on Pesach, is one allowed to go on תהלוכה?

If the chametz is masheke, and one had more than 4? No.
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 11331
  • Total likes: 1616
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8015
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #393 on: April 20, 2017, 04:55:16 PM »
If the chametz is masheke, and one had more than 4? No.
Under 4 and it's likely ok.
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline Emkay

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 14386
  • Total likes: 363
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 35
    • View Profile
  • Location: Where I ought to be
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #394 on: April 20, 2017, 05:10:49 PM »



I honestly don't know why I bother.

Probably the same reason that people go to pesach programs, the temptation is strong.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 11214
  • Total likes: 5139
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #395 on: April 20, 2017, 05:20:19 PM »
Here you go again using labels.

What does that mean? What does that say?

I happened to be walking back from תהלוכה with someone whose son was there for the first days. I asked him whether his son would eat there. He answered that he assumes he did eat there but would rather not ask, and that this son makes sure to go for Pesach to high-end sedorim, and eats wherever he goes. He said that he has another son who will just go wherever needed, and will eat just minimal things (hard boiled eggs, etc.) or take food along for himself. This story seems to indicate a negative correlation between emphasis on luxury and kashrus scrupulousness. I try to avoid assumptions, but life experience does indicate something.
I am not following the whole gebroks part of this conversation, but did you need a story to tell you that emphasis on luxuries has a negative correlation with religious observance (emphasis on the word emphasis very important here)? There are tons of gemaras etc which say that.

I gotta say a logical reasons LSAT course can teach more logic than decades of gemara apparently. Oh no wait that must be wrong, nothing will ever be gained from learning something secular.
Chas v'shalom on both parts. No LSAT review can teach logic better than gemara, although some may learn more logic from LSATs than they actually did from gemara. That would be the person's own fault.

The gemara itself says chochma bagoyim taamin.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 11214
  • Total likes: 5139
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #396 on: April 20, 2017, 05:21:00 PM »
Haven't had such odd non-sequitur, hard to decipher the point of, holier-than-thou, circular logic responses since CBC in his feistier era before Chaikel suspended him.
I honestly don't know why I bother.
Now you are the one bringing that incident up?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 9111
  • Total likes: 2381
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #397 on: April 20, 2017, 05:26:08 PM »
You said that in programs the mashgichim won't care about gebroktz as much as Chabad would. I told you that in my program the mashgichim were all Lubavitchers who clearly do care about gebroktz, and you throw something about labels back at me.

I don't believe I used any of those labels in my post that you seem to be responding to.

Did you actually ask the mashgichim about the standards of hashgacha (similar to what you did in SIN?) or did you just assume it's up to a certain standard because the mashgichim are "Chabad"? While many "traditional Chabad Pesach chumros" are just family traditions, and might have no real source or strong reasoning to be expected from, much less - imposed on, anyone (though many will strongly adhere to them), the details and the chumra of gebrokts is clearly elucidated in ספר המנהגים and in the Rebbe's הגדה של פסח - if one reads all the footnotes.

To paraphrase a something I posted upthread in Hebrew, some people seem to be more trusting and less questioning when it comes to kashrus, than they are in other trivial things.

Nobody is trying to convince you to go to a program. Perhaps you're so holy that you never eat out at all. More power to you. But I'm done here.
I don't think I've ever claimed to be, or thought I might be, holier than any other Jew.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline eli1571

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 2131
  • Total likes: 6
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #398 on: April 20, 2017, 05:32:21 PM »
Chometz from before pesach can't be kashered, but if a goy uses your keilim with chometz on pesach, who said it can't be kashred ?
This story makes no sense. You can't kasher it on pesach.



Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 11214
  • Total likes: 5139
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #399 on: April 20, 2017, 05:36:04 PM »
thats for shehiya iinm. i am talking about it not being batel which the MB says (i forgot from who) is because hatora asa'an birshuso, i was venturing then that a goy's chometz can become batel on pesach
ETA: you're right, i must be mixing it up, possibly with chozeir venaiyor. however, even with the reasoning you qouted i still could see the possibility of being able to be mevatel a goy's chometz on pesach.
I am pretty sure that the poskim do not differentiate as to who owns the chometz
Chometz from before pesach can't be kashered, but if a goy uses your keilim with chometz on pesach, who said it can't be kashred ?
That the din applies for something absorbed by the keilim on pesach is explicit in the poskim
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline eli1571

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 2131
  • Total likes: 6
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #400 on: April 20, 2017, 05:42:05 PM »
I am pretty sure that the poskim do not differentiate as to who owns the chometzThat the din applies for something absorbed by the keilim on pesach is explicit in the poskim
Source ?

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 11214
  • Total likes: 5139
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #401 on: April 20, 2017, 05:57:24 PM »
Source ?
Regarding that there is isur mashehu on chometz of a goy one place it can be seen is 467:8 where it is clear that even a small amount of flour mixed into honey would be a problem.

Regarding mashehu which happened on pesach it is discussed in numerous cases such as where someone finds a kernel in his food over pesach (467:9 for starters) where the all utensils are assur including any other food mixed with the spoon used (see poskim there).
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Geshmak25

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Sep 2014
  • Posts: 3340
  • Total likes: 107
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #402 on: April 20, 2017, 06:42:17 PM »
This thread has gone far off the rails. Im much more interested in reading about pesach hotel horror stories.
PUTPAC = PITA

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 9111
  • Total likes: 2381
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #403 on: April 20, 2017, 06:46:31 PM »
This thread has gone far off the rails. Im much more interested in reading about pesach hotel horror stories.
Do you take great interest in reading about the suffering of fellow Jews?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline moko

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 3057
  • Total likes: 277
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #404 on: April 20, 2017, 06:48:46 PM »
I never said they don't have strong Kashrus standards.

However, even with strong Kashrus standards, FWIU there are always compromises that not everyone would gladly accept if they were fully aware (talk to mashgichim). Especially when it comes to Pesach, while some things might just be "chumros", for someone who follows the Rebbe's directives, there seems to be very strict guidance regarding gebrokts. It is close to impossible to maintain that standard in a hotel where not everyone is aware and cares about it.
+100
IME
1.a hotel that has what I call ongoing "general" kashrus problems has a lousy hashgacha.
2. Many hotels with top tier hashgacha either have chilul Shabbos / YT issues or are soimech on many kulos. (First and foremost using the dishwasher on Shabbos and Yom tov in a situation where it would be impossible to wash by hand for 1000 guests. There are tzdadim lhatir)
3. Almost every hotel is soimech on kulos regarding (even those who say they kasher nothing , end up kashering something) kashering whether they admit it or not.
Using your g-d given right of stupidity is an option, not a requirement. Please use sparingly.