Author Topic: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!  (Read 54275 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #480 on: April 21, 2017, 08:44:45 AM »
People aren't really speaking the same language here. Someone who makes pesach at home with each kid contributing hand made arts and crafts and divrei torah to the table, helping to bake the pesach dishes, portion out the matzah and Maror, taking turns serving & bringing washing water for zeidy etc., setting up props for the makos and acting them out, marching around the house to bitzeis yisroel, spending most of yom tov (and chol hamoed if you focus on the right venues) focused on the kids without too many distractions etc. there is no way they can appreciate the hotel scene. I've had guests come to my home who've been to some pretty decent pesach programs with their parents when they were growing up and they wistfully remark that they never knew what they were missing by not having experienced pesach at home.

On the other hand, those who go to the programs can't fathom how one can enjoy yom tov if they would have to non stop cook clean up and serve and be stuck in the house with nothing exciting for the kids to really do and hours of work with no down time for the parents for themselves.

Then again there are families who stay home and have a stressful time of it and really would do better in a hotel environment.

Bottom line is there is nothing like an at home pesach experience when it is done right, but not everyone is able to pull it off in the right atmosphere and a program is actually not a bad option for them.....

Lastly there are the programs where to goal is non stop hedonism, gorging on culinary dishes and dubious entertainment options for eight days straight while the kids are whisked out of sight so mom and dad can give their undevided attention to their pleasure trip while acknowledging that it happens to be pesach with a token Seder and a lecture or two where they are passive participants. I have nothing but pity( was going to say contempt but really pity is much more appropriate)for these folks because their choice of venue is just a symptom of the fact that they have no idea of the significance of the unbelievable holiday they are turning their backs on, a lifestyle where success is measured in terms of things and status, rather than relationships and personal growth, or both.
+10
+10 is not nearly enough.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #481 on: April 21, 2017, 08:58:19 AM »
I am thankful my parents never took us to any programs while I was growing up. They were able to afford it but I can't fathom how our Pesach seder would be the same in a hotel. It would not even be close. It's also a great time to spend at home with my siblings, grandparents, and extended family that I don't wanna miss. That being said, after seeing the video from the Arizona program I must admit I was enticed.
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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #482 on: April 21, 2017, 09:04:45 AM »
those people are always hostage to some taava
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Offline Toasted

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #483 on: April 21, 2017, 09:23:34 AM »
+10 is not nearly enough.
+10
Waiting to see if this makes it to the Forward as well.  8)

Offline theduke

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #484 on: April 21, 2017, 09:34:59 AM »
People aren't really speaking the same language here. Someone who makes pesach at home with each kid contributing hand made arts and crafts and divrei torah to the table, helping to bake the pesach dishes, portion out the matzah and Maror, taking turns serving & bringing washing water for zeidy etc., setting up props for the makos and acting them out, marching around the house to bitzeis yisroel, spending most of yom tov (and chol hamoed if you focus on the right venues) focused on the kids without too many distractions etc. there is no way they can appreciate the hotel scene. I've had guests come to my home who've been to some pretty decent pesach programs with their parents when they were growing up and they wistfully remark that they never knew what they were missing by not having experienced pesach at home.

On the other hand, those who go to the programs can't fathom how one can enjoy yom tov if they would have to non stop cook clean up and serve and be stuck in the house with nothing exciting for the kids to really do and hours of work with no down time for the parents for themselves.

Then again there are families who stay home and have a stressful time of it and really would do better in a hotel environment.

Bottom line is there is nothing like an at home pesach experience when it is done right, but not everyone is able to pull it off in the right atmosphere and a program is actually not a bad option for them.....

Lastly there are the programs where to goal is non stop hedonism, gorging on culinary dishes and dubious entertainment options for eight days straight while the kids are whisked out of sight so mom and dad can give their undevided attention to their pleasure trip while acknowledging that it happens to be pesach with a token Seder and a lecture or two where they are passive participants. I have nothing but pity( was going to say contempt but really pity is much more appropriate)for these folks because their choice of venue is just a symptom of the fact that they have no idea of the significance of the unbelievable holiday they are turning their backs on, a lifestyle where success is measured in terms of things and status, rather than relationships and personal growth, or both.
Could not have said this better myself.

Offline Yehuda_H

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #485 on: April 21, 2017, 09:43:43 AM »
People aren't really speaking the same language here. Someone who makes pesach at home with each kid contributing hand made arts and crafts and divrei torah to the table, helping to bake the pesach dishes, portion out the matzah and Maror, taking turns serving & bringing washing water for zeidy etc., setting up props for the makos and acting them out, marching around the house to bitzeis yisroel, spending most of yom tov (and chol hamoed if you focus on the right venues) focused on the kids without too many distractions etc. there is no way they can appreciate the hotel scene. I've had guests come to my home who've been to some pretty decent pesach programs with their parents when they were growing up and they wistfully remark that they never knew what they were missing by not having experienced pesach at home.

On the other hand, those who go to the programs can't fathom how one can enjoy yom tov if they would have to non stop cook clean up and serve and be stuck in the house with nothing exciting for the kids to really do and hours of work with no down time for the parents for themselves.

Then again there are families who stay home and have a stressful time of it and really would do better in a hotel environment.

Bottom line is there is nothing like an at home pesach experience when it is done right, but not everyone is able to pull it off in the right atmosphere and a program is actually not a bad option for them.....

Lastly there are the programs where to goal is non stop hedonism, gorging on culinary dishes and dubious entertainment options for eight days straight while the kids are whisked out of sight so mom and dad can give their undevided attention to their pleasure trip while acknowledging that it happens to be pesach with a token Seder and a lecture or two where they are passive participants. I have nothing but pity( was going to say contempt but really pity is much more appropriate)for these folks because their choice of venue is just a symptom of the fact that they have no idea of the significance of the unbelievable holiday they are turning their backs on, a lifestyle where success is measured in terms of things and status, rather than relationships and personal growth, or both.
Growing up, we always made pesach at home. It was a lot of work, we all chipped in cooking and cleaning and my mother organized the kashering of the kitchen. Once pesach started, it was - not fun - but enjoyable for all the personal efforts put in.
Chol hamoed meals were usually tuna burgers on matzah meal buns or matzah pizza or matzah cereal (you can see where this is going, lol).
Since I got married, i've been joining my in-laws at a hotel program and it's fun and enjoyable in a different way. Gourmet meals, fresh omelettes at every meal, non stop food/tea room, well it gets to be a bit much. And the kids are very young, so late meals really get out of hand for them.
My personal preference would be to maker the sedarim at home and then spend chol hamoed and the last days with family/in laws outside the neighborhood.

Offline damaxer91

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #486 on: April 21, 2017, 10:04:42 AM »
This?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/gkrfoodies/permalink/666384636880850/

Strikes me as a bit odd that the host of this group (who never allows anything nasty to be posted) took the initiative here when it involved a competing program in the Cancun area

Not sure of his exact involvement in "Kosher Luxus" (PR guy?) but he is always selling a bag of goods on what most people say is a pretty subpar program throughout the year

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #487 on: April 21, 2017, 10:16:19 AM »
This?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/gkrfoodies/permalink/666384636880850/

Quote
Dear Guests we are amidst an intense legal battle with the Royaton Riviera over lost monies, poor service and overall dissatisfaction. Please see the attached letters addressed to the Royalton. We will be reaching out to guests all week and will keep you updated as more information becomes available. Once again our sincerest apologies and as our lawyers are now reccomending that US citizens not travel to Mexico any longer due to current highten tensions, we will keep you updated as more information becomes available.
All the best,
Shmuel & Eli

Seriously?

Offline Dan

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #488 on: April 21, 2017, 10:20:04 AM »
Strikes me as a bit odd that the host of this group (who never allows anything nasty to be posted) took the initiative here when it involved a competing program in the Cancun area

Not sure of his exact involvement in "Kosher Luxus" (PR guy?) but he is always selling a bag of goods on what most people say is a pretty subpar program throughout the year
His business model is getting restaurants to pay him to make sure people don't say bad things about them.

Hence no negative reviews on his page, though he frames that as no lashon hara. So every kosher restaurant is a 10 there...

And yes, Luxus does pay him off and they have sent us emails to take down negative reviews about them on DDF. But that's the benefit of not being beholden, go ahead and send your fancy NY lawyuhs if you want.

FWIW, this is the issue with a site that would review programs. The only way to pay for that would be to get programs to advertise, and once that happens you lose credibility. Plus then you'll start getting the takedown notices, etc.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Geshmak25

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #489 on: April 21, 2017, 10:24:06 AM »
His business model is getting restaurants to pay him to make sure people don't say bad things about them.

Hence no negative reviews on his page, though he frames that as no lashon hara. So every kosher restaurant is a 10 there...

And yes, Luxus does pay him off and they have sent us emails to take down negative reviews about them on DDF. But that's the benefit of not being beholden, go ahead and send your fancy NY lawyuhs if you want.

FWIW, this is the issue with a site that would review programs. The only way to pay for that would be to get programs to advertise, and once that happens you lose credibility. Plus then you'll start getting the takedown notices, etc.
You should be able to get objective testimonials on ddf. Problem is that there are so many diff programs that it will be hard to cover most of them and get enough of them to form a consensus opinion.
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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #490 on: April 21, 2017, 10:25:11 AM »
You should be able to get objective testimonials on ddf. Problem is that there are so many diff programs that it will be hard to cover most of them and get enough of them to form a consensus opinion.
Well start a thread, form a wiki, and we will see
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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #491 on: April 21, 2017, 10:25:36 AM »
His business model is getting restaurants to pay him to make sure people don't say bad things about them.

Hence no negative reviews on his page, though he frames that as no lashon hara. So every kosher restaurant is a 10 there...

And yes, Luxus does pay him off and they have sent us emails to take down negative reviews about them on DDF. But that's the benefit of not being beholden, go ahead and send your fancy NY lawyuhs if you want.

FWIW, this is the issue with a site that would review programs. The only way to pay for that would be to get programs to advertise, and once that happens you lose credibility. Plus then you'll start getting the takedown notices, etc.
+1 had a meeting with him before, spot on.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline damaxer91

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #492 on: April 21, 2017, 10:30:33 AM »
His business model is getting restaurants to pay him to make sure people don't say bad things about them.

Hence no negative reviews on his page, though he frames that as no lashon hara. So every kosher restaurant is a 10 there...

And yes, Luxus does pay him off and they have sent us emails to take down negative reviews about them on DDF. But that's the benefit of not being beholden, go ahead and send your fancy NY lawyuhs if you want.

FWIW, this is the issue with a site that would review programs. The only way to pay for that would be to get programs to advertise, and once that happens you lose credibility. Plus then you'll start getting the takedown notices, etc.

Hence why this is even more bothersome....

Offline Dan

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #493 on: April 21, 2017, 10:33:15 AM »
Hence why this is even more bothersome....
Call him out on it.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Dan

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #494 on: April 21, 2017, 10:35:24 AM »
FWIW, his official program in PR last year had major issues from what I heard from some people, but you won't find that online anywhere...
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.