Author Topic: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!  (Read 76217 times)

Offline AsherO

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #580 on: April 25, 2017, 07:32:04 PM »
Other wheat kernels, but some are mivukaos or tzomchu

This isn't Gemara.

You generalized that Chametz is batel before Pesach, ostensibly as an explanation for why a KPF product wouldn't necessarily need a mashgiach tmidi. I offered you an exception which for some reason you refuse to acknowledge.

Somehow I followed you down some rabbit-hole relating to one grains getting lost amongst another grain, even if you found an exception to my exception it doesn't change the fact that not all Chametz is batel before Pesach.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #581 on: April 25, 2017, 07:34:41 PM »
So it's rare, but if there's a piece of bread stuck in the bottle cap that's outright Chometz. Are you going to start telling me it isn't a problem because the bottle is upright?

Do they have a mashgiach temidi at the production of the caps, or are all caps inspected by the mashgiach?

Bottom line, the need for a mashgiach temidi at KFP soda bottling is almost like the need for DW to have kids clean the nooks and crannies of furniture with toothbrushes and q-tips (after they have been thoroughly cleaned by conventional means). However, both make people happy and keep people busy. Some people are happy to see the mashgiach (and it keeps him busy), and others feel the need to know that the furniture was cleaned with a toothbrush and q-tip (which keeps the kids busy).

ETA: unless it's done in a plant like this which I doubt.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 07:40:59 PM by ExGingi »
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Offline CS1

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #582 on: April 25, 2017, 07:36:06 PM »
This isn't Gemara.

You generalized that Chametz is batel before Pesach, ostensibly as an explanation for why a KPF product wouldn't necessarily need a mashgiach tmidi. I offered you an exception which for some reason you refuse to acknowledge.

Somehow I followed you down some rabbit-hole relating to one grains getting lost amongst another grain, even if you found an exception to my exception it doesn't change the fact that not all Chametz is batel before Pesach.

which is why most soda plants, chocolate plants, and other packing plants would probably require mashgiach tmidi pre-Pesach
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Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #583 on: April 25, 2017, 07:40:03 PM »
This isn't Gemara.

You generalized that Chametz is batel before Pesach, ostensibly as an explanation for why a KPF product wouldn't necessarily need a mashgiach tmidi. I offered you an exception which for some reason you refuse to acknowledge.

Somehow I followed you down some rabbit-hole relating to one grains getting lost amongst another grain, even if you found an exception to my exception it doesn't change the fact that not all Chametz is batel before Pesach.
We are talking about a soda production not all KFP products. In which case would soda be bimashehu?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AsherO

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #584 on: April 25, 2017, 08:04:02 PM »
We are talking about a soda production not all KFP products. In which case would soda be bimashehu?

We were talking about a soda plant with workers running around carrying Chametz. I've never seen a soda plant but ostensibly some of that Chametz could end up in the soda.

Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #585 on: April 25, 2017, 08:05:48 PM »
We were talking about a soda plant with workers running around carrying Chametz. I've never seen a soda plant but ostensibly some of that Chametz could end up in the soda.
That is the case about which I wrote that even if that does happen (highly unlikely) it would not be bimashehu. I stand by that.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AsherO

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #586 on: April 25, 2017, 08:09:05 PM »
That is the case about which I wrote that even if that does happen (highly unlikely) it would not be bimashehu. I stand by that.

And I question that assertion. I'm going to agree to disagree, even if you disagree to agree to disagree.

P.s. I have a new siggy, thanks aygart.

Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #587 on: April 25, 2017, 08:12:24 PM »
And I question that assertion. I'm going to agree to disagree, even if you disagree to agree to disagree.

P.s. I have a new siggy, thanks aygart.
I have no problem with you disagreeing, but I still do not know in which case it would not be lach bilach. You haven't yet given one. If you did then maybe we would agree to agree.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #588 on: April 25, 2017, 09:38:22 PM »
I once heard a shiur from the head of a kashrus agency.  He said that chametz before Pesach is batel (as stated above ) but no reliable kashrus agency relies on that when giving their kfp certification.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #589 on: April 25, 2017, 09:47:19 PM »

Offline aygart

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #590 on: April 25, 2017, 09:50:26 PM »
Asked and answered
To which I answered that it would depend what you call visible and ExGingi answered that you never see solids in a soda. The possibility of a slice of bread floating in a soda bottle is not something which they need to worry about.

ETA: let's leave it here instead of going in circles. If I would get called with the shailo that would be my psak
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 09:59:33 PM by aygart »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline whYME

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #591 on: April 25, 2017, 10:11:56 PM »
Whether or not the mashgiach is actually needed in this case is not really relevent IMO. What's relevant is that FWIU the run was not supposed to happen without a mashgiach there and nobody cared to (or was able to) enforce that. Are we really letting the goyishe workers decide when the mashgiach is really needed or not?

Offline henche

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #592 on: April 25, 2017, 11:17:01 PM »
This is how fun threads die.

Alone,  friendless,  and kvetching about crumbs in the soda

Offline AsherO

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #593 on: April 25, 2017, 11:41:03 PM »
This is how fun threads die.

Alone,  friendless,  and kvetching about crumbs in the soda

Someone stepped out of Kav.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #594 on: April 25, 2017, 11:43:54 PM »
Someone stepped out of Kav.
ALOL. Wrong thread.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #595 on: April 25, 2017, 11:45:00 PM »
ALOL. Wrong thread.

It's a gavra response, not a treftsa response.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #596 on: April 25, 2017, 11:48:55 PM »
It's a gavra response, not a treftsa response.
Can't you just type Hebrew (or Aramaic, or Yiddish) words using the Hebrew alphabet? I have a problem with the transliterations.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #597 on: April 25, 2017, 11:51:35 PM »
Can't you just type Hebrew (or Aramaic, or Yiddish) words using the Hebrew alphabet? I have a problem with the transliterations.

You're blaming me for your inability to read? At least you can write :P

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #598 on: April 25, 2017, 11:53:44 PM »
You're blaming me for your inability to read? At least you can write :P
I didn't attend PIT, so how should I be able to read?  :P

The problem is when there's a dissonance between the language and the alphabet used.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #599 on: April 26, 2017, 12:03:45 AM »
I didn't attend PIT, so how should I be able to read?  :P

ALOL. Wrong thread.