Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!

[Menachem613]

I don't think anyone is arguing that it isn't healthy to go to a program every year.

But it's nice to give everyone a break now and then if you can swing it and if your minhagim allow for it.

But Dan! How do you show appreciation to your wife! If arthritis doesn't set in before the Mah Nishtana you won't get that spiritual high.

[alexk.]

I think the problem is not only with the hotels, but rather the whole dilution of true Pesach values. Pesach has become a huge, huge, industry. It is almost nauseating to see the "new" products that look so much like chometz, taste like chometz etc... ( wither they really do or not is a different story). It is not only the hotels. The whole indulgence to have Pizza, Bagels, Doughnuts, etc...

I will give you an example of the problem with all of this:

Close to 20 years ago I remember going to a Chol Hamoed arcade venue of where I saw Frum kids buying Coke from the soda machine. It was clearly not Kosher L'Pesach. But why should the think twice? Coke is on their table at the Seder after all! It is for this reason I will only buy the less desirable Kosher brands of Soda on Pesach. This was 20 years ago.

I know that there was talk many years ago that Entenmann's almost had a deal with a Kosher Bakery to label Pesach Cakes for them. Imagine if there were Kosher L'Pesach Entenmann's???

Do we really need Pizza and Doughnuts? What happens when they perfect it and the Pizza looks and tastes like Pizza? Will we have a whole generation that just remembers eating Pizza and Doughnuts on Pesach?

I know the Pizza and Doughnuts are extreme examples, but the whole yom tov of Pesach is about creating limitations, if you look in Seforim. I am not saying I don't buy products, but at least your family should know that on Pesach we don't need every type of indulgence.

However, once you go to a Hotel, you are most likely being served every type of indulgence; at least that is the impression of those who do not go...

If you stay home, at least there is a chance.

Some people need the hotel for various reasons ( no time to prepare, elderly, not capable of preparing, don't have room for the whole family, etc...) but I just can't condone it for the mainstream.
It is a slippery slope... My 2 cents...
   

[Dan]

But Dan! How do you show appreciation to your wife! If arthritis doesn't set in before the Mah Nishtana you won't get that spiritual high.

Somehow, someway, I'll find a way.

[as2]

But Dan! How do you show appreciation to your wife! If arthritis doesn't set in before the Mah Nishtana you won't get that spiritual high.

Missed another boat, they don't run all night you know...

[Boruch999]

Stinks to have to fly on a plane to Israel.
Was so much more meaningful to spend a year to get there via horse. Nowadays you just swipe your cards and your kids will have no appreciation for the place.
Sad!

You have a horse that can swim the Atlantic in a year? Wow!

[sky121]

Exactly. Times change. Some old feeling won't be felt anymore as they did in the day it took a boat ride to cross the Atlantic. Those days aren't coming back.
We also have electricity by our Seders. Judaism and our kids will survive this too.

I do think as time goes on, especially at how fast the world is changing that without some effort from parents kids can end up missing out in being happy, understanding, appreciative individuals.

[Menachem613]

I think the problem is not only with the hotels, but rather the whole dilution of true Pesach values. Pesach has become a huge, huge, industry. It is almost nauseating to see the "new" products that look so much like chometz, taste like chometz etc... ( wither they really do or not is a different story). It is not only the hotels. The whole indulgence to have Pizza, Bagels, Doughnuts, etc...

I will give you an example of the problem with all of this:

Close to 20 years ago I remember going to a Chol Hamoed arcade venue of where I saw Frum kids buying Coke from the soda machine. It was clearly not Kosher L'Pesach. But why should the think twice? Coke is on their table at the Seder after all! It is for this reason I will only buy the less desirable Kosher brands of Soda on Pesach. This was 20 years ago.

I know that there was talk many years ago that Entenmann's almost had a deal with a Kosher Bakery to label Pesach Cakes for them. Imagine if there were Kosher L'Pesach Entenmann's???

Do we really need Pizza and Doughnuts? What happens when they perfect it and the Pizza looks and tastes like Pizza? Will we have a whole generation that just remembers eating Pizza and Doughnuts on Pesach?

I know the Pizza and Doughnuts are extreme examples, but the whole yom tov of Pesach is about creating limitations, if you look in Seforim. I am not saying I don't buy products, but at least your family should know that on Pesach we don't need every type of indulgence.

However, once you go to a Hotel, you are most likely being served every type of indulgence; at least that is the impression of those who do not go...

If you stay home, at least there is a chance.

Some people need the hotel for various reasons ( no time to prepare, elderly, not capable of preparing, don't have room for the whole family, etc...) but I just can't condone it for the mainstream.
It is a slippery slope... My 2 cents...
 

Can you afford to go away for Pesach?

[chevron]

I dont think cleaning for pesach was much of a thing in years by gone. Plus, ALL OF YOU will not do beskias chametz like the mishna says... which of you have at least 2 rows of wine barrels to search? im going to do it like the mishna at the winery

[Dan]

I know the Pizza and Doughnuts are extreme examples, but the whole yom tov of Pesach is about creating limitations.   

I must have missed that halacha.

Yes, by nature things were limited in the past. But in times past there also wasn't frozen pizza and donuts in a box during the whole year. Does that mean kashrus by nature is about creating limitations or was that the nature of the beast at the time?
There are places today where kosher products are hard to find year round. Is that how it should be because it used to be like that?

[as2]

Can you afford to go away for Pesach?

What is your obsession with peoples money?! We got it, you are super loaded and can go to a hotel for pesach. Some of us can and some of us can't. Some of us can but won't.

[Dan]

You have a horse that can swim the Atlantic in a year? Wow!

Russia≠US (except if you ask Trump )

[alexk.]

Yes I can. And some of my wife's family goes away. And my Brother-In-Law ( who goes) said to me last week: " There is going to be a whole generation that doesn't know what eating Matzah over a bag is ( his family Minhag, not mine). Clearly the Chinuch aspect is lost this way...

 

[Dan]

Yes I can. And some of my wife's family goes away. And my Brother-In-Law ( who goes) said to me last week: " There is going to be a whole generation that doesn't know what eating Matzah over a bag is ( his family Minhag, not mine). Clearly the Chinuch aspect is lost this way...

Why does going to a program inhibit the ability to eat over a bag?

[Menachem613]

What is your obsession with peoples money?! We got it, you are super loaded and can go to a hotel for pesach. Some of us can and some of us can't. Some of us can but won't.

Let me explain once again in a different way. If you cannot afford a Lamborghini don't tell me how you would never buy one and how you love when your Honda breaks down and you get your hands dirty fixing the car and showing your son how to do it.  Kapeesh?

[chevron]

Chakira did a whole article on matza in the past.  http://www.hakirah.org/Vol17Zivotofsky.pdf

Fascinating read but, Gebrokhts is a non issue if you knead. Matza used to be soft, matza was baked fresh EVERY DAY.

Screw pizza and donuts,  I dont eat that during the year, I want fresh baked laffa matza for my shwarma

[chevron]

Also my host makes chumus, i'm eating it. I much rather eat kitniyot or laffa matza than the crap made these days

[alexk.]

I must have missed that halacha.

Yes, by nature things were limited in the past. But in times past there also wasn't frozen pizza and donuts in a box during the whole year. Does that mean kashrus by nature is about creating limitations or was that the nature of the beast at the time?
There are places today where kosher products are hard to find year round. Is that how it should be because it used to be like that?

I am talking Hashkafah not Halachah. Any Seforim that discuss the Hashkafik aspect of Pesach generally talk about this.

There is nothing Halachically wrong with putting a TV on a Shabbos Clock to watch your favorite team play. I don't think this was a halachic discussion...

[sky121]

I must have missed that halacha.

Yes, by nature things were limited in the past. But in times past there also wasn't frozen pizza and donuts in a box during the whole year. Does that mean kashrus by nature is about creating limitations or was that the nature of the beast at the time?
There are places today where kosher products are hard to find year round. Is that how it should be because it used to be like that?

This is all so much a hashkafa conversation.

It's great.

It should cause us all to really delve into what Pesach ( and YT And shabbas in general ) is all about. What it's supposed to be about.


At one point someone had to ask themselves, just because using a timer might be halachically permissible is it taking away from the feeling of Shabbos? Is taking away from what I believe Shabbos is supposed to be about?


What is Pesach?

Can Pesach really not be had if someone else cooks your meals?  You can choose to want things a certain way, you can feel that kids are missing out. You can be right about that.
But does that mean it's wrong?

[Dan]

Also my host makes chumus, i'm eating it. I much rather eat kitniyot or laffa matza than the crap made these days

Can always count on you to take this off the rails, Chevron

[hvaces42]

You have a horse that can swim the Atlantic in a year? Wow!

Its only available with lifetime status. For the hamon am its a sea turtle.