Author Topic: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!  (Read 56346 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #300 on: April 20, 2017, 01:23:52 PM »
Question: If you ran a pesach program and your guests were kidnapped by the hotel, and you hired a lawyer.   Would you hire what appears to be a one-man shop in Houston that does "Business, Real Estate, And Construction Legal Services"?
Also notice the writing/grammar/capitalization etc. in the letters (and I am guessing that this lawyer did study English in high-school  ;) unlike some DDFers). Sounds/looks as professional as the organizers of this (and many other) so-called Pesach programs.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline TimT

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #301 on: April 20, 2017, 01:30:56 PM »
runnergirl, did you do any research on the group you were choosing ? Did you get any feedback beforehand ?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #302 on: April 20, 2017, 01:32:38 PM »
Please someone do this ASAP
I would give my 3 word trip advisor on Pesach programs, though I'm sure I'll get a lot of flak (or slack  ;D):

Just don't go!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline cmey

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #303 on: April 20, 2017, 01:33:00 PM »
 Just don't get it. Looking at the website, who in the world signs up for such a place, with that kind of entertainment, the various water activities, casino etc etc and says I want to make sure it's chassidishe shechitah nisht gebrokst etc.??

Offline runnergirl

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #304 on: April 20, 2017, 01:35:25 PM »
runnergirl, did you do any research on the group you were choosing ? Did you get any feedback beforehand ?

Yes and met 2 ladies on the trip who came last year and were very happy and that's why they came back. They were very dissapointed this year.

Offline runnergirl

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #305 on: April 20, 2017, 01:36:52 PM »
Just don't get it. Looking at the website, who in the world signs up for such a place, with that kind of entertainment, the various water activities, casino etc etc and says I want to make sure it's chassidishe shechitah nisht gebrokst etc.??

Most programs are nisht gebrots. There weren't chassidishe ppl on this trip.

Offline theduke

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #306 on: April 20, 2017, 01:39:58 PM »
So the program director made off with millions and left the poor folk in Mexico out to dry? He should be caught and prosecuted.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #307 on: April 20, 2017, 01:41:33 PM »
We were advised that dinner would be in a specialty restaurant that night but since we weren't there the night before to make a reservation you will have to eat in the family dining room. We had no problem with that at all. After mincha we met my husband and son in front of the family dining hall. When we opened the door there was no one there and no meal set up??? We walked over to the specialty restaurant and asked to be seated. We were told they had reservations for 197 ppl and if they seated us we woulds be displacing others. I agian saw the same guy I knew in the restaurant and explained the situation to him. He had no idea that there was no dinner at the family dining room and really did try to get us seated at this restaurant but to no avail. He told us to go to the BBQ as is it probably still open. It was closing when we got there, but my husband managed to grab a hot dog from the little that was left. My son, daughter and I ate nothing. Again all along I am texting the owner an receiving no responses. We decided to go check out the tea room and get something there before the evening activity which was supposed to be a really funny comedian. The tea room was a joke. Some bowls of craisins, nuts, gummy worms, etc. They did have gelato but no one was sure whether it was parve or milchigs and they had a coffee bar.

In the situations described, how can someone be sure the food is even minimally Kosher?

Please someone do this ASAP

This website being suggested would monetize by advertisements from some Pesach programs, and be beholden to those programs.
PGF24BMGS

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #308 on: April 20, 2017, 01:42:06 PM »
Just don't get it. Looking at the website, who in the world signs up for such a place, with that kind of entertainment, the various water activities, casino etc etc and says I want to make sure it's chassidishe shechitah nisht gebrokst etc.??

I don't know what you call "nisht gebrokst", but the way we keep to it, I highly doubt that any hotel program would qualify.

Since it's quite relevant, I will copy/paste here something I received yesterday via WhatsApp on a Kashrus group. Unfortunately, this seems to be the norm rather than the exception.

סיפור טרי לצרכני הכשרות❗

הערב יצאנו לאירוע בר מצווה של קרובי משפחתי באולם בתל אביב, אנו איננו אוכלים בחוץ כלל מטעמי כשרות, ולא משנה באיזה כשרות המטבח, אז כמובן אנכי אשתי והילדים לא התקרבנו לאוכל,
אשתי חפצה לשתות משקה מסויים עם חותמת מקובלת על הבקבוק, מאחר ומדובר ביום אחר הפסח פניתי לשאול האם יש להם שטר מכירת חמץ, ואגב התעניינתי בעניין כשרות המאכלים במקום (כשבעלי האירוע הבטיחו הכל גלאט..
 במקום סעדו חרדים ודתיים שונים אשר אכלו את כל המזון המוגש ללא כל חשש, אחר שהבטיחו בעל האירוע ובעל האולם שהכל גלאט...)

הופנתי לבעל האולם שאמר לי "כל האוכל כאן הגיע מקייטרינג 'יואליס' בכשרות הרב לנדא, כולל הכלים והשתיה" ואף הוציא לי את הסמארטפון והראה לי תעודה מצולמת של הרב לנדא על הקייטרינג.
שאלתי היכן המשגיח, אמר לי, חבל, בדיוק היה כאן לחימומי האוכל והלך.
שאלתי "יש לכם תעודת כשרות של הרבנות? שטר מכירת חמץ? יש טלפון של המשגיח?"
אמר לי "אי אפשר להשיג אותו עכשיו בטלפון, אבל הכל טוב, אין לי תעודות כשרות כי המטבח כאן רק מחמם את האוכל..."

מאחר והכל היה נשמע מסריח מתחילה ועד סוף,
(איך ישלח קייטרינג בכשרות, כלים השייכים לקייטרינג בכשרות מהודרת לאולם ללא השגחה כלל? איך אין לבעל האולם תעודות משלוח וקבלות מהקייטרינג? איפה המשגיח ומהו מספרו למה מכסים זאת ממני? ראיתי שמגישים צ'יפס ושניצלים מבעבעים משמן היישר מתוך הצ'יפסרים במטבח.. ועוד ועוד..)

פתחתי בבירור מול כשרות הרב לנדא שפנו ליואליס שהכחיש מכל וכל ששיווק לאולם הנ"ל מזון באותו יום וכמובן שלא שלח משגיח לשם.

פניתי לכל החרדים במקום והוכחתי אותם אתם אוכלים מזון לא כשר כלל ומסתבר שגם חמץ שעבר עליו הפסח!!!
אז הם הפסיקו לאכול וקמו ממקומותיהם כעוסים ונעלבים על העוול שנעשה להם, אך למעשה מי שעשה להם עוול זה הם לעצמם ותו לא!!

מסקנא אחת היא: שנים שאני רואה ציבורים שלמים של פראיירים שנכנסים לאולמי שמחות ומסעדות וסומכים על אנשים עלומים שמראים להם תעודות עלומות ורצים היישר אל האוכל בתאווה.

הסיפור הנ"ל הוא עוד הוכחה למה יש להפסיק לסמוך על מה שמוכרים לכם!!
אם היו מביאים לכם בגד ללא תווית ומבטיחים לכם שהוא ממותג נחשק ומבקשים עליו תשלום הייתם מאמינים?? מה פתאום שבכשרות פתאום כולם נאמנים בשבילכם??
אל תהיו נאיבים!! גם כשמבטיחים לכם "כל המזון בכשרות הרב מחפוד או הרב לנדא או בדץ העדה החרדית" בד"כ אם אלו אנשים נאמנים הם מתכוונים רק לבשרים, כל תהליך העיבוד של המזון ושאר הפרודוקטים לא נעשו תחת כשרויות אלו אלא אם כן מופיעה תעודה עם תאריך עדכני ושם האולם ובעל השמחה, וחותמת מתנוססת עליה ומשגיחים נוכחים באולם שישיבו לשאלותיכם!
אם לא אז כבר יש כאן משהו שטעון בירור מקיף בדבר כשרות המזון המוגש לכם שם.


החותם בברכת התורה ובתקווה להתחזקות הרבים בענייני הכשרות
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I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #309 on: April 20, 2017, 01:43:37 PM »
This website being suggested would monetize by advertisements from some Pesach programs, and be beholden to those programs.

And even an independent website would get threatening letters from lawyers.  A website owner wouldn't be able to afford the fight.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #310 on: April 20, 2017, 01:44:37 PM »
And even an independent website would get threatening letters from lawyers.  A website owner wouldn't be able to afford the fight.
Hence, use my post above in lieu. :D
I would give my 3 word trip advisor on Pesach programs, though I'm sure I'll get a lot of flak (or slack  ;D):

Just don't go!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline runnergirl

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #311 on: April 20, 2017, 01:46:08 PM »
In the situations described, how can someone be sure the food is even minimally Kosher?

This website being suggested would monetize by advertisements from some Pesach programs, and be beholden to those programs.

My son said the same thing while we were there.....you're right. We trust our fellow Jew when signing up for these programs.

Offline theduke

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #312 on: April 20, 2017, 01:49:03 PM »
Heard from a friend of mine that worked as a mashgiach in a hotel a few years ago. Mind you this was a hotel that was run by an organization that supposedly raises money to keep or make ppl frum, i would assume a hotel like this would make sure to be very strict about the kashrus... He told me that after first days spent fighting with the director and the head mashgiach he called Rabbi Belsky and on chol hamoed Rabbi Belsky Made the organization re kasher the whole kitchen. Among the things going on, the workers were bringing in chometz, Beer and one of the chefs insisted on only using his own knife... Of course it was nisht gebrochts though

Offline dvol

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #313 on: April 20, 2017, 01:55:07 PM »
I was there.

The program was complete chaos and disorganization. I was there last year as well and while the food was awful, there was plenty of it and we had a nice time since the property is gorgeous and we enjoyed the crowd. This year was just ridiculous. Not enough food, no tea room, nobody to talk to about the multiple issues.

Regarding the article above, the story was that the hotel gave the program a bill of about $250k at the end of the program for services they claimed they provided (on top of what the program had already paid them) which the program claimed was inaccurate. The program owner slipped out of the hotel at 4AM after chag.

We checked out early since our flight was early afternoon and all was fine. About 1pm the hotel realized that the owner of the program had skipped town and so they started detaining guests and refusing to allow them to leave the property without paying extravagant amounts, from $5k-$35k per family...

The property is about a mile or more off the main road. There is a long road (about 5-10 minutes) once you get off the highway to the property. There are 3 security checkpoints along that road and they do not let you off the property without a pass from the hotel showing you are paid up in full.

As far as I know everyone left, paid with their Amex cards and are planning to dispute these charges.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!
« Reply #314 on: April 20, 2017, 01:57:15 PM »
My son said the same thing while we were there.....you're right. We trust our fellow Jew when signing up for these programs.

So is that why
my husband managed to grab a hot dog from the little that was left. My son, daughter and I ate nothing.

Any "Pesach Program" that is not in a place which is booked exclusively for the program, is probably a non-starter for any serious Kashrus supervising agency.

I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan