Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!

[theduke]

Libun is not possible for a significant portion of the equipment used. Neither is buying new a real option for much of it. There is something missing from this story.

pretty sure libun is possible and it is how many mashgichim kasher. Big blow torch and all. easier than kashering sometimes. Either way i was not the posek on the case and there have been other mitigating factors to allow different kulos that were known to a posek who had shas and poskim on his fingertips as opposed to an am haaretz like me.

[aygart]

pretty sure libun is possible and it is how many mashgichim kasher. Big blow torch and all. easier than kashering sometimes. Either way i was not the posek on the case and there have been other mitigating factors to allow different kulos that were known to a posek who had shas and poskim on his fingertips as opposed to an am haaretz like me.

I didn't mean because of the volume but because things could get ruined by libun. Once something could get ruined by libun it doesn't help to try. THere may have been other mitigating factors. I am just saying there is more to the story here.

[theduke]

I didn't mean because of the volume but because things could get ruined by libun. Once something could get ruined by libun it doesn't help to try. THere may have been other mitigating factors. I am just saying there is more to the story here.

http://www.ok.org/consumers/passover/the-koshering-of-pesach-hotels/ it definitely is a complicated process!
from the article
"Then the mashgichim trained in the use of blow torches begin to work. All the surfaces of an item require kosherizing and are heated to the correct temperature. Often the local fire department is notified in advance that this activity is taking place and may even be present to deal with the inevitable triggering of fire alarms. The grills and skillets need to be koshered with a glowing layer of hot coals. Glassware must be soaked in water for 24 hours, the water emptied and replaced. This process must be repeated twice more. Wooden surfaces such as butcher blocks must be sanded down. The dishwashers must be stripped down, meticulously cleaned and then the internal thermostat must be overridden (often with the assistance of a technician) so the cycle can be run with boiling water. During the koshering period, the entire mashgiach team generally works around the clock, all while dealing with the provisions that are arriving constantly and ensuring that they meet the OK kashrus standards."

[AsherO]

For someone who seems to have coined the term "Chumra"

Sounds harsh to me...

#notasamod

[Emkay]

Sounds harsh to me...

#notasamod

It wasn't meant to be. I really need to use emojis more.

[aygart]

http://www.ok.org/consumers/passover/the-koshering-of-pesach-hotels/ it definitely is a complicated process!
from the article
"Then the mashgichim trained in the use of blow torches begin to work. All the surfaces of an item require kosherizing and are heated to the correct temperature. Often the local fire department is notified in advance that this activity is taking place and may even be present to deal with the inevitable triggering of fire alarms. The grills and skillets need to be koshered with a glowing layer of hot coals. Glassware must be soaked in water for 24 hours, the water emptied and replaced. This process must be repeated twice more. Wooden surfaces such as butcher blocks must be sanded down. The dishwashers must be stripped down, meticulously cleaned and then the internal thermostat must be overridden (often with the assistance of a technician) so the cycle can be run with boiling water. During the koshering period, the entire mashgiach team generally works around the clock, all while dealing with the provisions that are arriving constantly and ensuring that they meet the OK kashrus standards."

Yes there is definitely libun used for some parts of the kitchen but that does not mean that it can be done usining only libun. Also, blow torches are typically used for libun kal which is also questionable as to whether it can be done on Pesach. The Pri Megadim says not but I can see R' Belsky not following that psak when necessary due to some kashyos on it.

[chinagel]

This story makes no sense. You can't kasher it on pesach.

just thinking, if its a goys keilim why cant you kasher it on pesach?

[ExGingi]

For someone who seems to have coined the term "Chumra" I'm surprised you are so quick to do this without thinking about lashon hara.

What assumptions are you making?

[aygart]

just thinking, if its a goys keilim why cant you kasher it on pesach?

How does that help?

[Yehuda57]

Chabad seems to always have politics with the local establishments, was that the case here?

I know, right? Everywhere you go Chabad is just destroying local business.

[ExGingi]

Yes there is definitely libun used for some parts of the kitchen but that does not mean that it can be done usining only libun. Also, blow torches are typically used for libun kal which is also questionable as to whether it can be done on Pesach. The Pri Megadim says not but I can see R' Belsky not following that psak when necessary due to some kashyos on it.

When I was a bochur, a friend offered me to come along (for pay) to help kasher a hotel in the Catskils for Pesach (under the OK).

At some point we took the pans that would go into the oven, and started to do libun (גמור). Needless to say, anything we tried doing this on was rendered useless! Some time into the job a upper level mashgiach came (IINM it might have been R' Dovid Steigman A"H) and said that as a matter of policy, no ליבון גמור should be done, as it is either not done properly, or it destroys equipment. ליבון קל is used in lieu of הגעלה, where that is appropriate.

[as2]

I know, right? Everywhere you go Chabad is just destroying local business.

+1 that's why so many locations world wide only have Chabad, they've destroyed all other businesses

[Emkay]

I know, right? Everywhere you go Chabad is just destroying local business.

I don't recall saying that. Obviously if I did post that and forgot about it I would appreciate if you posted a link.

[Emkay]

What assumptions are you making?

2 main ones. That all you post is true, and that you didn't ask a Rav if it's ok to open said site.

[ExGingi]

2 main ones. That all you post is true, and that you didn't ask a Rav if it's ok to open said site.

And I am assuming you never visited that url, nor did carefully read my posts upthread.

[chinagel]

How does that help?

assuming the problem is theres no bittul on pesach, a goys chometz should be able to become batel as theres no asa'an htorah birshuso

[Emkay]

And I am assuming you never visited that url, nor did carefully read my posts upthread.

I did but I possibly have reading comprehension issues.

[ExGingi]

I did but I possibly have reading comprehension issues.

You must have spent too much time studying English rather than Limudei Kodesh. 

[aygart]

assuming the problem is theres no bittul on pesach, a goys chometz should be able to become batel as theres no asa'an htorah birshuso

What do those 2 have to do with each other?

[ExGingi]

Once again you're full of assumptions. The mashgichim at POTM for example were all Chabad.

Here you go again using labels.

What does that mean? What does that say?

I happened to be walking back from תהלוכה with someone whose son was there for the first days. I asked him whether his son would eat there. He answered that he assumes he did eat there but would rather not ask, and that this son makes sure to go for Pesach to high-end sedorim, and eats wherever he goes. He said that he has another son who will just go wherever needed, and will eat just minimal things (hard boiled eggs, etc.) or take food along for himself. This story seems to indicate a negative correlation between emphasis on luxury and kashrus scrupulousness. I try to avoid assumptions, but life experience does indicate something.