Pesach Program in Greece Cancelled Just Now!

[Dan]

Here you go again using labels.

What does that mean? What does that say?

I happened to be walking back from תהלוכה with someone whose son was there for the first days. I asked him whether his son would eat there. He answered that he assumes he did eat there but would rather not ask, and that this son makes sure to go for Pesach to high-end sedorim, and eats wherever he goes. He said that he has another son who will just go wherever needed, and will eat just minimal things (hard boiled eggs, etc.) or take food along for himself. This story seems to indicate a negative correlation between emphasis on luxury and kashrus scrupulousness. I try to avoid assumptions, but life experience does indicate something.

What in the actual world? I know it's 4/20 and all, but c'mon.

You said that in programs the mashgichim won't care about gebroktz as much as Chabad would. I told you that in my program the mashgichim were all Lubavitchers who clearly do care about gebroktz, and you throw something about labels back at me.

Nobody is trying to convince you to go to a program. Perhaps you're so holy that you never eat out at all. More power to you. But I'm done here.

[chinagel]

What do those 2 have to do with each other?

im venturing a possibilty, the reason chametz isnt batel on pesach is because hatorah asa'an birshuso so it cant be batel. chometz of a goy which is not hatorah asa'an birshuso should be able to be batel and therefore you should be able to eat it.

[as2]

What in the actual world? I know it's 4/20 and all, but c'mon.

You said that in programs they won't care about gebroktz as much as Chabad would. I told you that in my program the mashgichim were Lubavitchers who clearly do care about gebroktz and you throw something about labels back at me.

I'm done here.

You seemed stresses, can I roll you one?

[Menachem613]

You seemed stresses, can I roll you one?

Who gives the Hashgacha on it?

[jj1000]

Here you go again using labels.

What does that mean? What does that say?

I happened to be walking back from תהלוכה with someone whose son was there for the first days. I asked him whether his son would eat there. He answered that he assumes he did eat there but would rather not ask, and that this son makes sure to go for Pesach to high-end sedorim, and eats wherever he goes. He said that he has another son who will just go wherever needed, and will eat just minimal things (hard boiled eggs, etc.) or take food along for himself. This story seems to indicate a negative correlation between emphasis on luxury and kashrus scrupulousness. I try to avoid assumptions, but life experience does indicate something.

A guy I was with on Pesach said he was once in CH for Pesach and someone in CH ate chometz, so he tries to no be in CH on Pesach. Therefore I try to not assume all CH eats chometz, but having heard that some do, I try to avoid being in CH for Pesach.

That's what I got from your post.

[Dan]

You seemed stresses, can I roll you one?

Haven't had such odd non-sequitur, hard to decipher the point of, holier-than-thou, circular logic responses since CBC in his feistier era before Chaikel suspended him.
I honestly don't know why I bother.

[aygart]

im venturing a possibilty, the reason chametz isnt batel on pesach is because hatorah asa'an birshuso so it cant be batel. chometz of a goy which is not hatorah asa'an birshuso should be able to be batel and therefore you should be able to eat it.

You are better off not making up your own reasons.

[ExGingi]

A guy I was with on Pesach said he was once in CH for Pesach and someone in CH ate chometz, so he tries to no be in CH on Pesach. Therefore I try to not assume all CH eats chometz, but having heard that some do, I try to avoid being in CH for Pesach.

That's what I got from your post.

I guess this must apply to you too:

I did but I possibly have reading comprehension issues.

You must have spent too much time studying English rather than Limudei Kodesh. 

[lubaby]

A guy I was with on Pesach said he was once in CH for Pesach and someone in CH ate chometz, so he tries to no be in CH on Pesach. Therefore I try to not assume all CH eats chometz, but having heard that some do, I try to avoid being in CH for Pesach.

That's what I got from your post.

If one eats Chometz on Pesach, is one allowed to go on תהלוכה?

[chinagel]

You are better off not making up your own reasons.

thats for shehiya iinm. i am talking about it not being batel which the MB says (i forgot from who) is because hatora asa'an birshuso, i was venturing then that a goy's chometz can become batel on pesach
ETA: you're right, i must be mixing it up, possibly with chozeir venaiyor. however, even with the reasoning you qouted i still could see the possibility of being able to be mevatel a goy's chometz on pesach.

[jj1000]

I guess this must apply to you too:

Do you understand how little sense your story makes? I know a very rich person who spends thousands of dollars on cleaning help and his house is more clean than someone who cleans it themselves.

Therefore rich people are generally more mehudar when it comes to cleaning for Pesach.

Are you being serious right now?

I gotta say a logical reasons LSAT course can teach more logic than decades of gemara apparently. Oh no wait that must be wrong, nothing will ever be gained from learning something secular.

[stooges44]

Haven't had such odd non-sequitur, hard to decipher the point of, holier-than-thou, circular logic responses since CBC in his feistier era before Chaikel suspended him.
I honestly don't know why I bother.

Now you're talking! Can't understand this meaningless back and forth either.

[Yehuda57]

If one eats Chometz on Pesach, is one allowed to go on תהלוכה?

If the chametz is masheke, and one had more than 4? No.

[jj1000]

If the chametz is masheke, and one had more than 4? No.

Under 4 and it's likely ok.

[Emkay]

I honestly don't know why I bother.

Probably the same reason that people go to pesach programs, the temptation is strong.

[aygart]

Here you go again using labels.

What does that mean? What does that say?

I happened to be walking back from תהלוכה with someone whose son was there for the first days. I asked him whether his son would eat there. He answered that he assumes he did eat there but would rather not ask, and that this son makes sure to go for Pesach to high-end sedorim, and eats wherever he goes. He said that he has another son who will just go wherever needed, and will eat just minimal things (hard boiled eggs, etc.) or take food along for himself. This story seems to indicate a negative correlation between emphasis on luxury and kashrus scrupulousness. I try to avoid assumptions, but life experience does indicate something.

I am not following the whole gebroks part of this conversation, but did you need a story to tell you that emphasis on luxuries has a negative correlation with religious observance (emphasis on the word emphasis very important here)? There are tons of gemaras etc which say that.

I gotta say a logical reasons LSAT course can teach more logic than decades of gemara apparently. Oh no wait that must be wrong, nothing will ever be gained from learning something secular.

Chas v'shalom on both parts. No LSAT review can teach logic better than gemara, although some may learn more logic from LSATs than they actually did from gemara. That would be the person's own fault.

The gemara itself says chochma bagoyim taamin.

[aygart]

Haven't had such odd non-sequitur, hard to decipher the point of, holier-than-thou, circular logic responses since CBC in his feistier era before Chaikel suspended him.
I honestly don't know why I bother.

Now you are the one bringing that incident up?

[ExGingi]

You said that in programs the mashgichim won't care about gebroktz as much as Chabad would. I told you that in my program the mashgichim were all Lubavitchers who clearly do care about gebroktz, and you throw something about labels back at me.

I don't believe I used any of those labels in my post that you seem to be responding to.

Did you actually ask the mashgichim about the standards of hashgacha (similar to what you did in SIN?) or did you just assume it's up to a certain standard because the mashgichim are "Chabad"? While many "traditional Chabad Pesach chumros" are just family traditions, and might have no real source or strong reasoning to be expected from, much less - imposed on, anyone (though many will strongly adhere to them), the details and the chumra of gebrokts is clearly elucidated in ספר המנהגים and in the Rebbe's הגדה של פסח - if one reads all the footnotes.

To paraphrase a something I posted upthread in Hebrew, some people seem to be more trusting and less questioning when it comes to kashrus, than they are in other trivial things.

Nobody is trying to convince you to go to a program. Perhaps you're so holy that you never eat out at all. More power to you. But I'm done here.

I don't think I've ever claimed to be, or thought I might be, holier than any other Jew.

[eli1571]

Chometz from before pesach can't be kashered, but if a goy uses your keilim with chometz on pesach, who said it can't be kashred ?

This story makes no sense. You can't kasher it on pesach.

[aygart]

thats for shehiya iinm. i am talking about it not being batel which the MB says (i forgot from who) is because hatora asa'an birshuso, i was venturing then that a goy's chometz can become batel on pesach
ETA: you're right, i must be mixing it up, possibly with chozeir venaiyor. however, even with the reasoning you qouted i still could see the possibility of being able to be mevatel a goy's chometz on pesach.

I am pretty sure that the poskim do not differentiate as to who owns the chometz

Chometz from before pesach can't be kashered, but if a goy uses your keilim with chometz on pesach, who said it can't be kashred ?

That the din applies for something absorbed by the keilim on pesach is explicit in the poskim