Author Topic: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem  (Read 9702 times)

Offline ChikkyMonkey

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David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« on: April 19, 2017, 11:58:32 AM »
I stayed several times at WA Jerusalem.

Friend suggested for upcoming shabbos I stay at David Citadel, can someone please give recent comparison to the two (after Citadel was renovated)?

How do you compare Shabbos meal at Citadel to WA (I am told citadel was nicer) and also general hotel atmosphere in Citadel?

Thank you

Offline damaxer91

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 04:27:34 PM »
I prefer the Citadel, especially during the warmer months. Nicer views, outdoor pool and a less of a heimishe crowd. Food is prob better at the Waldorf but you can always go across the street to eat..

Offline ChikkyMonkey

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 08:07:25 AM »
Is hechsher the same?

Offline Emkay

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 08:37:11 AM »
Is hechsher the same?
If going by the teuda on the wall then they are the same. If going on hearsay then WA is better.

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 08:55:04 AM »
If going by the teuda on the wall then they are the same. If going on hearsay then WA is better.
It is definitely possible that WA has a better team of mashgichim. What people may not realize is that the best mashgiach is one who upholds the standards he is instructed to use.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online ejb123

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 08:58:59 AM »
I wonder if in the time of the Beit Hamikdash there was a concern about which inn had better mashgichim and how that was judged.

Offline Emkay

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2017, 09:34:36 AM »
I wonder if in the time of the Beit Hamikdash there was a concern about which inn had better mashgichim and how that was judged.
Is that sarcasm or ignorance (I'm guessing both)? My meter isn't working properly.

Offline Emkay

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2017, 09:36:50 AM »
It is definitely possible that WA has a better team of mashgichim. What people may not realize is that the best mashgiach is one who upholds the standards he is instructed to use.
Exactly, and the standards the Citadel claims to uphold are significantly more loose than what WA claims.

Online ejb123

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 10:16:27 AM »
Is that sarcasm or ignorance (I'm guessing both)? My meter isn't working properly.

Why both? I was a real question. When bnei yisrael when to the beis hamikdash for the shalosh regalim - I am wondering if people rated the inns or guest houses they stayed in and likely ate at based on their personal view of the mashgichim being "better" - assuming they both had the same teudah.

Offline Emkay

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 10:26:31 AM »
Why both? I was a real question. When bnei yisrael when to the beis hamikdash for the shalosh regalim - I am wondering if people rated the inns or guest houses they stayed in and likely ate at based on their personal view of the mashgichim being "better" - assuming they both had the same teudah.
Teudas didn't exist in that sense at that point.

Offline Dan

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 10:40:27 AM »
If going by the teuda on the wall then they are the same. If going on hearsay then WA is better.
Does the Citadel's mashgichim claim to only use mehadrin food and meat?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Emkay

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2017, 10:46:36 AM »
Does the Citadel's mashgichim claim to only use mehadrin food and meat?
This was a couple years ago so may have changed.
But besides for not everything being mehadrin, they also used bet yosef meat which many don't rely on.
He was extremely knowledgeable, but the standards were lower in terms of ingredients, in terms of actual supervision he was phenomenal.

Offline Dan

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2017, 10:50:21 AM »
This was a couple years ago so may have changed.
But besides for not everything being mehadrin, they also used bet yosef meat which many don't rely on.
He was extremely knowledgeable, but the standards were lower in terms of ingredients, in terms of actual supervision he was phenomenal.
So then why is WA only better based on hearsay?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Emkay

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 11:01:23 AM »
So then why is WA only better based on hearsay?
Hearsay doesn't mean it isn't true. Simply means "information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate"
Everyone says that all Rabbis approve of it, yet I can't find a single one in Israel thats involved in the Kashrus scene to actually say that someone who doesn't eat regular Rabbanut can eat there. And that includes people who have had sit downs with the mashgiach and tours of the kitchen. Its largely stemmed from the bandwagon effect. So not to say that it isn't true, rather thats its unconfirmed with anyone in the know.
I hate arguing about the WA but you brought it up.

Offline Dan

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 11:02:53 AM »
Hearsay doesn't mean it isn't true. Simply means "information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate"
Everyone says that all Rabbis approve of it, yet I can't find a single one in Israel thats involved in the Kashrus scene to actually say that someone who doesn't eat regular Rabbanut can eat there. And that includes people who have had sit downs with the mashgiach and tours of the kitchen. Its largely stemmed from the bandwagon effect. So not to say that it isn't true, rather thats its unconfirmed with anyone in the know.
I hate arguing about the WA but you brought it up.
Erm...I was the first to bring it up?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Emkay

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2017, 11:04:04 AM »
Erm...I was the first to bring it up?
Lol. Just looked back, apparently I did. Its such a part of me that its second nature

Offline yuneeq

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2017, 11:24:30 AM »
Hearsay doesn't mean it isn't true. Simply means "information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate"
Everyone says that all Rabbis approve of it, yet I can't find a single one in Israel thats involved in the Kashrus scene to actually say that someone who doesn't eat regular Rabbanut can eat there. And that includes people who have had sit downs with the mashgiach and tours of the kitchen. Its largely stemmed from the bandwagon effect. So not to say that it isn't true, rather thats its unconfirmed with anyone in the know.
I hate arguing about the WA but you brought it up.

I spoke to someone that toured many hotel kitchens in Israel multiple times, that the actual supervision of standard Rabanut hotels is far superior from pretty much any restaurant you'll go to. The issue was the usually the ingredients used, but many times the mashgiach is available to discuss what is and isn't mehadrin to your standards.
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Offline Emkay

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2017, 11:29:10 AM »


I heard from someone that toured many hotel kitchens in Israel multiple times, that the actual supervision of standard Rabanut hotels is far superior from pretty much any restaurant you'll go to. The issue was the usually the ingredients used, but many times the mashgiach is available to discuss what is and isn't mehadrin to your standards.

Lol. Pretty much just the opposite. The people running Rabbanut are extreme talmidei chachamim. They likely have the from the hardest smicha tests in Israel. The issue is by the time it trickles down to nimrod serving your shawarma its a joke. The supervision is most cases is for the most part nonexistent.

Offline Moshe F

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2017, 11:51:43 AM »
Any input on rooms/service or even breakfast spread (looks can be compared even if you didn't eat it  ;) )?

Offline yuneeq

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Re: David Citadel vs Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2017, 11:52:03 AM »

Lol. Pretty much just the opposite. The people running Rabbanut are extreme talmidei chachamim. They likely have the from the hardest smicha tests in Israel. The issue is by the time it trickles down to nimrod serving your shawarma its a joke. The supervision is most cases is for the most part nonexistent.

I disagree, walk into a hotel and they usually employ multiple mashgichim and some of them are extremely experienced and knowledgeable. The processes are also set pretty strictly to avoid mistakes and messups. In a rabbanut shawarma store I would be worried but the Citadel has far more supervision than probably any restaurant you've ever eaten in.
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