חסיד שוטה

[hvaces42]

This cant wait until Friday and maybe we can smoke out JTZ in his new incarnation...

So someone close to me working in a doctor's office taking blood places a tourniquet on the young to middle age chusid's arm and feels for a vein. His immediate response is dont touch me, put on gloves.

This has happened multiple times now in various different forms but same scenario. Can someone please explain how gloves make it more מותר for this שוטה?

Feel free to contribute youre own story.

[koplonko]

Hygiene, not religion. Its not hygienic to touch someone (especially in a doctor's office with diseases etc.) without gloves

[hvaces42]

Hygiene, not religion. Its not hygienic to touch someone (especially in a doctor's office with diseases etc.) without gloves

No he specifically said it was religious.

[mmgfarb]

Hygiene, not religion. Its not hygienic to touch someone (especially in a doctor's office with diseases etc.) without gloves

First of all this is true. Second of all, if it's done respectfully and without demanding anything, who cares? If that's the way he wants to live his life, why is that a problem? It's totally normal to want your doctor to wear gloves anyway. It's not like he's demanding to be moved to a different seat on an airplane or something like that.

[LoLo]

If Mike pence wouldn't eat with a women without his wife present, why is it so weird that a chusid wouldn't want an unrelated women to TOUCH him?

I don't see anything wrong in the story, especially in a doctor's office where gloves are expected.

Of course, tone and attitude matters.

[Yammer]

This cant wait until Friday and maybe we can smoke out JTZ in his new incarnation...

So someone close to me working in a doctor's office taking blood places a tourniquet on the young to middle age chusid's arm and feels for a vein. His immediate response is dont touch me, put on gloves.

This has happened multiple times now in various different forms but same scenario. Can someone please explain how gloves make it more מותר for this שוטה?

Feel free to contribute youre own story.

While I'm sure that others can bring better​ sources,we see such a concept in
סימן קצ"ה סעיף יז
פ"ת סקי"ז

[hvaces42]

If Mike pence wouldn't eat with a women without his wife present, why is it so weird that a chusid wouldn't want an unrelated women to TOUCH him?

I don't see anything wrong in the story, especially in a doctor's office where gloves are expected.

Of course, tone and attitude matters.

Maybe i wasnt clear, it was not based on hygiene. In the other situations a teenager asked if he had to be touched period for the bloods to be taken and similar statements were made here.

How does one expect to get this done without ANY contact. And its funny, the rabbonim are the ones that never say a word. Hence the title of the thread.

[jj1000]

I agree the bigger story here is someone not wearing gloves when taking blood. Talk about a שוטה...

[real-brisker]

Title has nothing to do with thread.

[hvaces42]

I agree the bigger story here is someone not wearing gloves when taking blood. Talk about a שוטה...

First off you probably know nothing about blood drawing. It is nearly impossible to tie a tourniquet with gloves. The gloves go on after the tourniquet is tied. Second you cannot palpate a vein properly in gloves either. So thats why first palpate then put on gloves and draw blood. Pay attention the next time you have blood drawn. You probably get stuck more than once or the needle is moved around once inside if they did the first steps with gloves.

[Moshe123]

The gemara has a very precise description of a chasid shoteh.
You know why the gemara had to explain? Because there are people than any teensie bit of frumkeit gets them up in arms, accusing.

[shmebeble]

finding a vein before getting gloves may not actually be a violation, assuming the person sanitized their hands.
You ever shake a doctors hands without gloves on  ?

[hvaces42]

finding a vein before getting gloves may not actually be a violation, assuming the person sanitized their hands.
You ever shake a doctors hands without gloves on  ?

Of course. Between each patient hands get sanitized.

[shmebeble]

Of course. Between each patient hands get sanitized.

You would like to think that. Studies have come out that in ER the number is under 80% of the time. Makes you feel good, doesnt it?

[hvaces42]

You would like to think that. Studies have come out that in ER the number is under 80% of the time. Makes you feel good, doesnt it?

The ER is crawling with disease as it is. So, meh. This is a private office with sanitary procedures. The bottom line is the frumkeit issue is whats being discussed here.

Dor yeshorim used to have female techs for the chasidish girl schools because of frumkeit...until a few chasidish men became phlebotomists or paramedics and now, all of a sudden, men are allowed into the chasidish girls schools to draw the blood. So I'm confused.

[David Smith]

This cant wait until Friday and maybe we can smoke out JTZ in his new incarnation...

So someone close to me working in a doctor's office taking blood places a tourniquet on the young to middle age chusid's arm and feels for a vein. His immediate response is dont touch me, put on gloves.

This has happened multiple times now in various different forms but same scenario. Can someone please explain how gloves make it more מותר for this שוטה?

Feel free to contribute youre own story.

You're right. This is the scandal of the century. If the person would've cared for health reasons it would've been a perfectly reasonable request, albeit possibly a bit overly cautious, but being as there were religion intentions behind the request, off to the guillotine he goes. This is an emergency situation that demands an immediate outcry. It's a good thing it didn't wait till Friday. The world may not have survived till then. I hope everybody responds immediately with their experiences with religious fanatics like the one in the OP for the sake of societies continuation, and properly appreciates the urgency of the situation.

[hvaces42]

... and it and it's officially become popcorn. Thank you.

You would have said tbe same thing if it was posted on friday.

[Super Speed]

I'm gonna sit back and relax and watch hvaces get torn apart yet again. Thank you for starting this pathetic conversation and for your hate towards people that try to be better than you.

[Amusch]

I don't want to share the full context, but I have heard from a well-known posek a difference between contact with gloves vs no gloves.

[hvaces42]

I'm gonna sit back and relax and watch hvaces get torn apart yet again. Thank you for starting this pathetic conversation and for your hate towards people that try to be better than you.

And you had to say thay because? It is pathetic when peoples phony/misguided frumkeit get in the way of actual life.
Do you throw money at cashiers in stores too because youre "not allowed" to hand it to them?