Author Topic: Smart homes  (Read 89256 times)

Offline Yonah

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #180 on: June 03, 2019, 10:40:05 AM »
If you have led lamp is it even worth it to invest in this product to save light on Shabbes?

From a purely financial standpoint, probably not. The cost of running a single 12W LED for all of shabbos is likely less than 10 cents.

(My math - 12*25 = 425 Watts - or 0.425 KW - cost per KWh is about 12 cents or so).

In all likelihood, unless you want lights off for shabbos - i.e. the hallway light that will keep your kids up at night, and even if you have a lot of lights in your home, it will still have a payback period of at least a year or maybe two for any automation system.

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #181 on: July 11, 2019, 01:26:47 PM »
Heating and cooling are on separate systems with 2 thermostats. Do any of these devices allow you to buy 2 and have them work together?

Offline Yonah

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #182 on: July 11, 2019, 02:44:52 PM »
Heating and cooling are on separate systems with 2 thermostats. Do any of these devices allow you to buy 2 and have them work together?

You *could*, but as my wife would say - that's a patchke arbeit.  I believe that it is possible to combine your two thermostats into one with many of these, but you'd have to research with that company's support folks.

For example, I found this on Nest: https://www.nest-community.com/s/question/0D51W00005Wzi5TSAR/can-i-wire-my-two-thermostats-into-one-radiant-heat-and-separate-ac

If you really wanted to, you could essentially install two separate thermostats and have different schedules for each - but why would you? Is there ever a situation where you're running both heat and AC at the same time?

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #183 on: July 11, 2019, 03:06:15 PM »
You *could*, but as my wife would say - that's a patchke arbeit.  I believe that it is possible to combine your two thermostats into one with many of these, but you'd have to research with that company's support folks.

For example, I found this on Nest: https://www.nest-community.com/s/question/0D51W00005Wzi5TSAR/can-i-wire-my-two-thermostats-into-one-radiant-heat-and-separate-ac

If you really wanted to, you could essentially install two separate thermostats and have different schedules for each - but why would you? Is there ever a situation where you're running both heat and AC at the same time?
My research since I posted has said that it's not very expensive to get the wires re-routed to the other location so that both systems run on the same thermostat. Is that why you're suggesting too?

Offline Yonah

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #184 on: July 11, 2019, 05:06:38 PM »
My research since I posted has said that it's not very expensive to get the wires re-routed to the other location so that both systems run on the same thermostat. Is that why you're suggesting too?

I'm not sure I get what you are saying, but it sounds like you are saying that the wiring for your two existing systems is far enough apart that it would be expensive to re-route them. I don't believe that these thermostats work in a way where you can combine two different units into 1 virtual unit, but you could do the following:

- Buy two thermostats
- Label one "Heat" and one "AC"
- Set the "Heat" mode to always be heating
- Set the "AC" mode to always be cooling

Set the schedules as you would for your current system. I would imagine that the heating threshold and cooling threshold would be far enough apart that they wouldn't overlap.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #185 on: July 11, 2019, 11:11:24 PM »
Heating and cooling are on separate systems with 2 thermostats. Do any of these devices allow you to buy 2 and have them work together?

In what way do you need them to work "together"?
If you wanna manage them from the same app, I know ecobee manages multiple thermostats from the same app, I'm sure others do this as well.
So what exactly are you trying to accomplish?
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Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #186 on: July 12, 2019, 09:35:58 AM »
I'm not sure I get what you are saying, but it sounds like you are saying that the wiring for your two existing systems is far enough apart that it would be expensive to re-route them. I don't believe that these thermostats work in a way where you can combine two different units into 1 virtual unit, but you could do the following:

- Buy two thermostats
- Label one "Heat" and one "AC"
- Set the "Heat" mode to always be heating
- Set the "AC" mode to always be cooling

Set the schedules as you would for your current system. I would imagine that the heating threshold and cooling threshold would be far enough apart that they wouldn't overlap.
In what way do you need them to work "together"?
If you wanna manage them from the same app, I know ecobee manages multiple thermostats from the same app, I'm sure others do this as well.
So what exactly are you trying to accomplish?
Correct, they are far apart from each other. Your suggestion seems like it would work. I'm finding out how much it would cost to just move the wires into the same location so I can have just 1 thermostat.

The issues I'm trying to solve are to make sure the ac and heat won't turn on at the same time (seems like Yonah's idea would solve this), 1 app to control both (good to know about ecobee), and save the $ from buying a second one.

Offline mercaz1

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #187 on: July 12, 2019, 10:21:00 AM »
this is what I have
I have 2 separate Nests
1 for AC and 1 for Heat
they both wok off the same app
its not that big a deal

Offline Yonah

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #188 on: July 12, 2019, 11:56:58 AM »
Correct, they are far apart from each other. Your suggestion seems like it would work. I'm finding out how much it would cost to just move the wires into the same location so I can have just 1 thermostat.

The issues I'm trying to solve are to make sure the ac and heat won't turn on at the same time (seems like Yonah's idea would solve this), 1 app to control both (good to know about ecobee), and save the $ from buying a second one.

I believe (but not 100% sure) that there might be a way to add wireless controls to your HVAC. I don't believe that Ecobee/Nest are compatible, but Honeywell might have some thermostats that support this.

When I say wireless, I mean that you hard wire the controls into a wireless transmitter in your HVAC room, and then your thermostat connects wirelessly. Your best bet might be to call nest, honeywell or ecobee to see if they have a solution for this that they support. You'd only need it for one of the two systems, as you could wire in one thermostat, and then wire in the wireless receiver to it as well. i.e. - You put the new thermostat where your current A/C thermostat is, then add a wireless transmitter to your heating wires and a wireless receiver to the heating control inputs on your new thermostat.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 12:00:03 PM by Yonah »

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #189 on: July 16, 2019, 04:15:34 PM »
this is what I have
I have 2 separate Nests
1 for AC and 1 for Heat
they both wok off the same app
its not that big a deal
Thank you!!

I believe (but not 100% sure) that there might be a way to add wireless controls to your HVAC. I don't believe that Ecobee/Nest are compatible, but Honeywell might have some thermostats that support this.

When I say wireless, I mean that you hard wire the controls into a wireless transmitter in your HVAC room, and then your thermostat connects wirelessly. Your best bet might be to call nest, honeywell or ecobee to see if they have a solution for this that they support. You'd only need it for one of the two systems, as you could wire in one thermostat, and then wire in the wireless receiver to it as well. i.e. - You put the new thermostat where your current A/C thermostat is, then add a wireless transmitter to your heating wires and a wireless receiver to the heating control inputs on your new thermostat.
Thanks for this idea. I'll be getting a quote from my electrician this week I hope. If he's more than $200 to rewire, I'll just buy a second thermostat.

Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #190 on: July 29, 2019, 01:43:37 PM »
Update:
My electrician said it isn't possible to wire the 2 systems together. My HVAC guy said you wouldn't want to. When they're 2 separate systems, you want the AC thermostat to be upstairs where it's hotter and you want the heat thermostat to be downstairs where it's colder. While that makes sense, I'm a bit confused as to how a single system works - the thermostat can only be in 1 place. Nowadays you can say that the sensors help, but before smart thermostats, did the old systems also have sensors throughout the house?

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #191 on: July 29, 2019, 02:26:31 PM »
Update:
My electrician said it isn't possible to wire the 2 systems together. My HVAC guy said you wouldn't want to. When they're 2 separate systems, you want the AC thermostat to be upstairs where it's hotter and you want the heat thermostat to be downstairs where it's colder. While that makes sense, I'm a bit confused as to how a single system works - the thermostat can only be in 1 place. Nowadays you can say that the sensors help, but before smart thermostats, did the old systems also have sensors throughout the house?

No. Before smart sensors PEOPLE were smart. They knew that if the heat thermostat was on 68 downstairs itll be 71 upstairs.
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Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #192 on: October 04, 2019, 06:58:12 AM »
Seems like a good deal on ecobee 4 for $118 - https://www.lowes.com/pd/ecobee-4-Thermostat-with-Wi-Fi-Compatibility/1000203625

Does ecobee 4 have any Shabbos issues that are different than ecobee 3? Seems like it's the same plus you don't need the piece of tape. @Dan is the only thing you didn't like about it the fact that turning off Alexa gives you a red status bar? (which is not a Shabbos issue, more of a preference)

Offline thaber

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #193 on: October 06, 2019, 03:33:43 AM »
Seems like a good deal on ecobee 4 for $118 - https://www.lowes.com/pd/ecobee-4-Thermostat-with-Wi-Fi-Compatibility/1000203625

Does ecobee 4 have any Shabbos issues that are different than ecobee 3? Seems like it's the same plus you don't need the piece of tape. @Dan is the only thing you didn't like about it the fact that turning off Alexa gives you a red status bar? (which is not a Shabbos issue, more of a preference)
Showing up as $199 for my location. Costco has for $169 online.

Offline thaber

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #194 on: October 06, 2019, 03:34:24 AM »
Sensibo

Anyone have experience with sensibo.?

I heard it's pretty good to control mini splits. But not that cheap of a product. Amazon offer similar product for much cheaper any options?
I bought one, but haven't installed yet

Offline thaber

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #195 on: October 06, 2019, 03:36:11 AM »
In the wsj. Why it needs to be so expensive is hard to understand

By Cecilie Rohwedder
Oct. 2, 2019 10:25 am ET
Every Friday night, as Shabbat starts in Jay and Lauren Hofstatter’s home in Boca Raton, Fla., all televisions automatically shut down, ground-floor lights come on and bedroom lights switch off. A cozy home theater, closed off during the week, is programmed to unlock—not for watching television but for family time after the evening meal.

The system will respond when Yom Kippur, the highest Jewish holiday, begins on the evening of Oct. 8. Linked to a cloud-based Hebrew calendar, it will set lighting and electronics to a “no touch” mode, because Orthodox Judaism bans handling lights and electronics on religious holidays and Shabbat.

“I love technology,” says Mr. Hofstatter, 34 years old and president of online retailer Daily Sale, based in Pompano Beach, Fla. “When we decided to go with a home-automation system, we knew there had to be something out there that adapts to the Jewish lifestyle.”

The living room combines an old-world fireplace with more glamorous old Hollywood accents, says Christine Sullivan, the designer.
The living room combines an old-world fireplace with more glamorous old Hollywood accents, says Christine Sullivan, the designer.PHOTO: ZAK BENNETT FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Much of the Hofstatters’ 2-year-old home has been designed for their Orthodox Jewish life: With eight bedrooms and seven baths, the 8,800-square-foot house is big enough for the couple’s eight children. It is a short walk from the synagogue to prevent long treks in the Florida heat on Shabbat, when driving is prohibited. And its home-automation system is so advanced that the motion detectors turn off on Shabbat to prevent the system from responding to different movements by family members that would activate the network.

Use of technology fine-tuned to support highly specialized needs reflects the growing sophistication in home systems. So-called smart homes—with easy, electronic control of lighting, temperature, shades and security—are becoming complex bespoke systems that fit homeowners’ individual habits and lifestyles.

Chowmain Software & Apps, an Australia-based software developer that built the software connecting the Hofstatters’ system to the Hebrew calendar, also offers a version for Muslim homeowners who want to program their homes to notify them of the call to prayer five times a day.

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Jay and Lauren Hofstatter—she is now 33—moved to Boca Raton in January 2007 from Brooklyn, N.Y. Newly married and pregnant with their oldest daughter, Deena, they initially chose a rental house near the Boca Raton synagogue but, as their family grew, moved three more times before deciding to build.

One of the home’s eight bedrooms.
One of the home’s eight bedrooms.PHOTO: ZAK BENNETT FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

A guest bedroom in the Hofstatter home.
A guest bedroom in the Hofstatter home.PHOTO: ZAK BENNETT FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

The children’s bedrooms have themes. The boys’ room is about space.
The children’s bedrooms have themes. The boys’ room is about space. PHOTO: ZAK BENNETT FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

In one daughter’s bedroom, the walls are hand-painted with vintage-style flowers.
In one daughter’s bedroom, the walls are hand-painted with vintage-style flowers.PHOTO: ZAK BENNETT FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

In July 2010, they bought a one-third acre lot for $440,000, according to real-estate website Zillow, razed the dated house on it and started a 13-month construction project, briefly interrupted by a hurricane. Smart-home wiring began when the house was little more than a shell of concrete-block walls. Juan Apraez, chief technology officer at All Digital, a home-automation company in Weston, Fla., spent hours with Mr. Hofstatter to grasp the family’s numerous specific needs before researching and installing the $250,000 system.

“We have to have a very intimate connection with the client to understand how they live and what they want,” says marketing director Maria Eraso Taylor, who is married to Mr. Apraez and owns the business with him. “This is not like someone laying a new floor.”

When the $2.5 million Mediterranean-style house was finished in 2017, with different colors, themes and hand-painted ceilings in each of the kids’ rooms, the home-automation system was set to a tight schedule.

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As Shabbat and holidays begin at sunset and ground-floor lights switch on, those in the master bedroom—also on the ground floor—go off. One exception: a reading lamp that goes on and then is shut off at midnight when the parents go to sleep. Upstairs bedrooms enter a “good-night mode” that turns bedroom lights off and bathroom lights on.

Now, Mr. Hofstatter is planning another tweak to the system: programming speakers throughout the house to alert the family before the customary candle lighting at the start of Shabbat. Mr. Hofstatter got the idea from his hometown of Brooklyn, where sirens go off in Jewish neighborhoods, one 15 minutes before Shabbat and one immediately before. He is still deciding whether his should be an announcement or a musical chime

Offline thaber

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #196 on: October 06, 2019, 03:47:14 AM »
Any thoughts on best smart light switches / hub for a shomer Shabos home?

Offline Dan

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #197 on: October 06, 2019, 10:44:11 AM »
Spending $250K for a shabbos smart home is officially jumping the shark. I'm not even sure it's worth 1/100th of that.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #198 on: October 06, 2019, 11:03:22 AM »
Spending $250K for a shabbos smart home is officially jumping the shark. I'm not even sure it's worth 1/100th of that.
That's the price of making the home smart to begin with. I know of a similar sized home that just for thier electronics system was $70,000 just for the system and wiring put into the walls, not including any post installation costs (like programming all the devices in the house into it etc. ((And for this house coding to get it to work for shabbos)).
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Re: Smart homes
« Reply #199 on: October 06, 2019, 11:13:23 AM »
That's the price of making the home smart to begin with. I know of a similar sized home that just for thier electronics system was $70,000 just for the system and wiring put into the walls, not including any post installation costs (like programming all the devices in the house into it etc. ((And for this house coding to get it to work for shabbos)).
Because they probably don't have wifi
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