Author Topic: Cell-phones/talking in Shul  (Read 8050 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2017, 06:03:46 PM »
Why is this in JS?  ???
Thats where all the important conversations go.
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Offline elit

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2017, 08:38:56 PM »
This deserves its own thread.

When I go for Shachris, I bury my phone in the tallis bag. It has happened to me that I forgot it there, and had to go back to get it, but being distracted in shul is by far worse. I would have loved to have cell-phone lockers in 770 (and have spoken to the Gaboim a few times about it, including offering to sponsor), so as to have a convenient solution for Mincha and Maariv.

IMHO, cell phones and talking in shul are major factors in the OTD pandemic. Think about it, if you were to go in from on the SCOTUS and be the only one in the chamber with the justices, given the opportunity to plead your case, would you have a side conversation? Would you allow your phone to ring, or even vibrate? What if you were to get an audience with Bill Gates, one-on-one to ask for participation from his foundation in a project. Would you have a side conversation? Would you allow your phone to ring, or even vibrate? What if Baron Trump would go into his father, who would stop everything in order to be present with his son, and give him full undivided attention, would Baron dare to have a side conversation or have a phone ring while his father has his eyes, ears and thoughts 100% towards him?

When we go into shul, we are one-on-one with Hashem. The above examples don't even come close to what that reality is!

ETA: I just added emphasis above to stress that we all know about דעת עליון and דעת תחתון. While in our physical eyes, material things might seem more real and possibly durable than things we only see בעיני השכל, the reality is the exact opposite!
don't want to hijack this thread but major factor in the OTD epidemic???

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2017, 09:08:21 PM »
don't want to hijack this thread but major factor in the OTD epidemic???
Absolutely!

If a child sees his parent, or other adult, disrespect Hashem's presence (which the child is taught is everywhere and always), especially in Hashem's מקדש מעט, why would such a child have any more respect? And a child can easily take it further, sensing insencerity in the parent...
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2017, 09:16:10 PM »
That is already a machlokes haposkim and also may be primarily referring to learning with saying the words and not just looking into a sefer.

R' Chaim Kanievsky writes that one who does shnayim mikro vechad targum during chazaras hashatz is not yotzei since it is a mitzva habo biaveiro.
The Alter Rebbe writes in the above quote ״ויכוין לכל ברכה מראשה ועד סופה״. That implies that even without saying words, one shouldn't be looking in a Sefer.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 09:45:49 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline yelped

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2017, 09:18:25 PM »
The Alter Rebbe writes in the above quote ״ויכוין לכל ברכה מראשה ועד סופה״. That implies that even without saying words, one shouldn't be looking in a Seder.
The maharil used to yell at people who looked into a sefer  during davening. 'Nuff said.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2017, 12:25:36 AM »
If a child sees his parent, or other adult, disrespect Hashem's presence (which the child is taught is everywhere and always), especially in Hashem's מקדש מעט, why would such a child have any more respect? And a child can easily take it further, sensing insencerity in the parent...
Do really feel they think it is a sign of disrespect?
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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2017, 12:30:15 AM »
Absolutely!

If a child sees his parent, or other adult, disrespect Hashem's presence (which the child is taught is everywhere and always), especially in Hashem's מקדש מעט, why would such a child have any more respect? And a child can easily take it further, sensing insencerity in the parent...
kids are not stupid they know it's lack of thinking not disrespect. Most people when shmoozeing if you'll politely remind them they would stop.
P.s. You would make a good speaker!
give some love (likes) to a brother!

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Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2017, 12:36:43 AM »
kids are not stupid they know it's lack of thinking not disrespect. Most people when shmoozeing if you'll politely remind them they would stop.
P.s. You would make a good speaker!
Most kids will be OK, but some will feel a cognitive dissonance. I am not saying it's a trigger, but I definitely think it has a big part.

I don't know where you daven, but unfortunately, as much as I love 770 and am proud of it, the talking situation in 770 leaves a lot to be desired.

I appreciate your compliment, though I wouldn't try to compete with Dan on the speakers circuit. I just have some things which I am extremely passionate about, and some people appreciate that (though I rarely speak in public).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2017, 12:39:21 AM »
Most kids will be OK, but some will feel a cognitive dissonance. I am not saying it's a trigger, but I definitely think it has a big part.

I don't know where you daven, but unfortunately, as much as I love 770 and am proud of it, the talking situation in 770 leaves a lot to be desired.

I appreciate your compliment, though I wouldn't try to compete with Dan on the speakers circuit. I just have some things which I am extremely passionate about, and some people appreciate that (though I rarely speak in public).
no need to compete, we'll have 2 lol
give some love (likes) to a brother!

Offline Yammer

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2017, 01:47:35 AM »
Over a year now that the phone either gets turned off, silent, or left in the car.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2017, 01:52:46 AM »
I don't know where you daven, but unfortunately, as much as I love 770 and am proud of it, the talking situation in 770 leaves a lot to be desired.

Maybe people in 770 should be encouraged to look into seforim during Chazoras Hashatz, hopefully that won't do too much damage to their kids.

Offline myi

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2017, 04:28:57 AM »
Maybe people in 770 should be encouraged to look into seforim during Chazoras Hashatz, hopefully that won't do too much damage to their kids.
Lol..
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Offline MosheP

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2017, 08:32:21 AM »
Great that so many are aware and opposed to this epidemic ravaging our communities. Join me in taking the pledge, and be one of the fortunate ones taking a stand for the glory of hashem our king.

http://kvodshomayim.org/pledge.html

Offline chevron

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2017, 02:27:12 PM »
kids are not stupid they know it's lack of thinking not disrespect. Most people when shmoozeing if you'll politely remind them they would stop.
P.s. You would make a good speaker!

It depends who but a lot has to do with the parent. If a parent doesn't talk in shull, the child will generally be OK about being reminded to be quiet.

In my shull, you have guys dressing like chasidish bochurim, who manage to to hold conversations while simultaneously davening, they will sometimes break to daven with impressive shows of kavana.. Or you see guys have conversations while learning dvar malchus.

It really is one big reason of otd as we discussed in the swingers thread. It's just crum, Judaism as an empty shell.

It makes a mockery of the mikdash me-at, of tefillah, of god.

It pisses me off how the uber from litteraly spit at god, this is a epidemic in chabad (and pick up garbage tissues from the floor dammit ) yet I daven at modox shulls where women don't cover their hair, the mechitza is see through over 3 feet, and the women wear pants etc etc etc all and god forbid you would not catch these people talking in shull.

It's really why I struggle to much with orthodoxy and finding meaning, it's like Judaism is just a ritual, they would not be caught dead eating machine matza but meh talking during kaddish?  Who gives a hoot

Offline aygart

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2017, 03:42:50 PM »
That is something which friends on the shul. The ones I daven in do not really have much of an issue with talking or  using cell phones. The real thing is that  how the crowd dresses does not say much about their connecting with God
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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2017, 04:05:05 PM »
It depends who but a lot has to do with the parent. If a parent doesn't talk in shull, the child will generally be OK about being reminded to be quiet.

In my shull, you have guys dressing like chasidish bochurim, who manage to to hold conversations while simultaneously davening, they will sometimes break to daven with impressive shows of kavana.. Or you see guys have conversations while learning dvar malchus.

It really is one big reason of otd as we discussed in the swingers thread. It's just crum, Judaism as an empty shell.

It makes a mockery of the mikdash me-at, of tefillah, of god.

It pisses me off how the uber from litteraly spit at god, this is a epidemic in chabad (and pick up garbage tissues from the floor dammit ) yet I daven at modox shulls where women don't cover their hair, the mechitza is see through over 3 feet, and the women wear pants etc etc etc all and god forbid you would not catch these people talking in shull.

It's really why I struggle to much with orthodoxy and finding meaning, it's like Judaism is just a ritual, they would not be caught dead eating machine matza but meh talking during kaddish?  Who gives a hoot
Unfortunately, there's a lot of substance in what you write.

However, just being negative about it, or compromising something else, doesn't solve the problem.

I guess this is how and where the שטן manages to get a foothold, and the problem goes back more than 200 years, or else why would the Alter Rebbe write about it?

I have a good friend who is a Shliach somewhere in Eretz Yisroel. He told me that in his shul he had such an epidemic of cell-phones that he looked at several measures. Rather than post signs, enforce rules, etc. he opted to give a series of Shiurim about davening. He says it did wonders, cell-phone use in the shul became virtually extinct.

Unfortunately, we are all blinded by the world, and sometimes don't take the time to do some introspection and realize what the true reality is. Let's try to focus on positive ways to improve our own davening, and possibly influence people we come in contact with. That will go a lot further than whining, comlaining, or switching shuls.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Work-for-ur-muny

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2017, 05:07:36 PM »
kids are not stupid they know it's lack of thinking not disrespect. Most people when shmoozeing if you'll politely remind them they would stop.
P.s. You would make a good speaker!
Ahemmmm... Say what? Unfortunately this is becoming less and less true. The amount of busha is diminishing by the minute. There are places where, sadly, you are looked down upon for being a "frummy" for not talking/quieting down others during davening.  :'(

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2017, 05:32:57 PM »
Since we're on the topic of talking in shul...

At my shul's melave malka/dinner, one of the speakers started with this (I'm paraphrasing): When the Rov asked me to speak, I said I didn't think it was a good idea - nobody wants to hear what I have to say. To which the Rov responded "They sure seem to want to hear what you have to say on Shabbos morning during davening!" 8)

Offline aygart

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2017, 05:45:11 PM »
and the problem goes back more than 200 years, or else why would the Alter Rebbe write about it?

Not only that, but he is quoting poskim much earlier than him. I think the one line not in the SA or MGA is in the SHLA

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Offline NTorch

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Re: Cell-phones/talking in Shul
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2017, 06:00:06 PM »
Rabbi Frand's Teshuva Derasha this past year was about the danger of smartphones.

R' Frand offered some suggestions for improvement based on this shiur:

1. Don't sleep with your cell phone nearby;
2. Don't let your children sleep with the cell phone in the room - they will spend half the night texting;
3. When learning with your children, don't have a cell phone nearby;
4. Don't allow the use of cellphones at meals;
5. Don't daven with your smartphone siddur.