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« Last edited by Randomex on March 21, 2021, 11:48:57 AM »

Author Topic: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...  (Read 1766542 times)

Offline Lamdan

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #820 on: May 13, 2012, 10:48:42 PM »
[i

So if he dosen't fall for it, then what exactly is the issues with the "kol Korahs"? The "kol Korahs seem to be legit daas torah.


+1
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Offline MarkS

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #821 on: May 13, 2012, 10:54:18 PM »
 
So if he dosen't fall for it, then what exactly is the issues with the "kol Korahs"? The "kol Korahs seem to be legit daas torah.
Picture the scene: If someone comes to him and misrepresents facts - and he believes the person (in their persistence), it could (and has happened before) result in his signature on something that if explained to him properly he would never have signed.

No one is saying he's not smart enough to figure out his own opinion, but being that he is very insulated and doesn't have much 'street experience' ( a good thing!) it's possible for someone to misrepresent facts to him.........

Offline Lamdan

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #822 on: May 13, 2012, 10:58:40 PM »
Picture the scene: If someone comes to him and misrepresents facts - and he believes the person (in their persistence), it could (and has happened before) result in his signature on something that if explained to him properly he would never have signed.

No one is saying he's not smart enough to figure out his own opinion, but being that he is very insulated and doesn't have much 'street experience' ( a good thing!) it's possible for someone to misrepresent facts to him.........
where was that seen in the video. Oh - and BTW I'm sure Reb Shimon Bar Yochai had major street experience, that's why they listened to him in his generation, because the decades he spent in a cave gave him street experience. (belated) Happy Lag Baomer!
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 11:02:03 PM by Lamdan »
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Offline MarkS

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #823 on: May 13, 2012, 11:08:29 PM »
where was that seen in the video. Oh - and BTW I'm sure Reb Shimon Bar Yochai had major street experience, that's why they listened to him in his generation, because the decades he spent in a cave gave him street experience, Happy Lag Baomer!
In the video, there were no 'facts' being misrepresented, and therefore he was able to see through their question.
I can't think of a good example, but say someone comes to him (or any Godol in EY for that matter) and goes on and on about the big problem of Yeshiva Bocherim going to movies and says that in even the best yeshiva's in America, 25% of guys are sneaking off to the theaters during night seder (or are hanging out with girls, or [insert forbidden but not commonly done activity here]). He then unfurls a long letter decrying the situation and saying that we need to all work together for a solution.
I'm sure the Godol would sign it and the said person would go on to propagate that letter in all the magazines saying that this is a big ongoing issue and we must hold meetings to combat it etc.....

How in the world should he know or not know that this problem doesn't exist in most mainstream American Yeshivas???
Should he get on the phone and start calling Roshei Yeshiva in America to take a survey? Or rely that he is being told the truth.

I don't think it's disrespectful to say that he doesn't know about certain nuances of life in America that if misrepresented to him could cause him to act differently than if he were presented with all the facts!

I have first hand knowledge of a prominent Rosh Yeshiva in America who was sick and unable to write. His name continued to appear on  many published letters. Some were showed to his family and given a go ahead to copy paste his signature, and others were just copied without even the family agreeing.   Additionally, there have been real stories of Rabbanim being called to find out if they indeed signed their name on xyz letter and the Rav says they he never heard of the letter and the signature was forged.....
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 11:17:05 PM by MarkS »

Offline Lamdan

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #824 on: May 13, 2012, 11:18:22 PM »
In the video, there were no 'facts' being misrepresented, and therefore he was able to see through their question.
I can't think of a good example, but say someone comes to him (or any Godol in EY for that matter) and goes on and on about the big problem of Yeshiva Bocherim going to movies and says that in even the best yeshiva's in America, 25% of guys are sneaking off to the theaters during night seder (or are hanging out with girls, or [insert forbidden but not commonly done activity here]). He then unfurls a long letter decrying the situation and saying that we need to all work together for a solution.
I'm sure the Godol would sign it and the said person would go on to propagate that letter in all the magazines saying that this is a big ongoing issue and we must hold meetings to combat it etc.....

How in the world should he know or not know that this problem doesn't exist in most mainstream Yeshivas???

I don't think it's disrespectful to say that he doesn't know about certain nuances of life in America that if misrepresented to him could cause him to act differently than if he were presented with all the facts!
why in the world do you think he'd trust anyone that would come in and tell him wht's going on in America. Would you trust any guy that comes in and tells you what's going on in Mexico? You're questioning his basic judgement. He only believes people he trusts, you're baselessly implying that he's stupid and would trust anyone with a baba maysah, i think that's disrespectful. I don't think you meant to be disrespectful.
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Offline MarkS

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #825 on: May 13, 2012, 11:24:37 PM »
why in the world do you think he'd trust anyone that would come in and tell him wht's going on in America. Would you trust any guy that comes in and tells you what's going on in Mexico? You're questioning his basic judgement. He only believes people he trusts, you're baselessly implying that he's stupid and would trust anyone with a baba maysah, i think that's disrespectful. I don't think you meant to be disrespectful.
Chas Vesholom! I'm talking about chashuveh people with long beards and even longer titles who misrepresent things. Do you think he has a personal relationship with everyone who brings him something to sign?
I was once offered a job by someone with an agenda - to drive around to all the Rabbanim in a certain state, convince them that that the agenda was correct, and get them to sign the letter. Who do you think usually runs around to all the rabbanim? They hire some 25 year old to do the work......

There was a controversial person running for township committee in Lakewood in 2010. The Roshei Yeshiva were against him. All of the sudden, he surfaced with a letter of 'haskama' from Harav Shteinman Shlita!   Wow, how did that happen??
It came out later, that someone was visiting the Rav, and asked him to help out a Yid in Lakewood who needs help to win the election! Happy to help out the Yidden of Lakewood, Rav Shteinman penned the letter.   Little did he know but all the Roshei Yeshiva in Lakewood were adamantly against this guy!!

Oh and if someone from Mexico told me that a bottle of Coke cost 50 cents in Mexico unlike $1.50 in America, and there is a Bodega on the corner of La cintego and Amigo Blvd that sells it for 45 cents on Friday afternoons....  I would believe him! I have little personal knowledge of how much soda costs in Mexico - and the guy insists that it is so! Why assume he's lying???

Again, do you really think he gets on the phone and does fact checking before signing things????
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 11:32:45 PM by MarkS »

Offline Lamdan

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #826 on: May 13, 2012, 11:37:11 PM »
Chas Vesholom! I'm talking about chashuveh people with long beards and even longer titles who misrepresent things. Do you think he has a personal relationship with everyone who brings him something to sign?
I was once offered a job by someone with an agenda - to drive around to all the Rabbanim in a certain state, convince them that that the agenda was correct, and get them to sign the letter. Who do you think usually runs around to all the rabbanim? They hire some 25 year old to do the work......

There was a controversial person running for township committee in Lakewood in 2010. The Roshei Yeshiva were against him. All of the sudden, he surfaced with a letter of 'haskama' from Harav Shteinman Shlita!   Wow, how did that happen??
It came out later, that someone was visiting the Rav, and asked him to help out a Yid in Lakewood who needs help to win the election! Happy to help out the Yidden of Lakewood, Rav Shteinman penned the letter.   Little did he know but all the Roshei Yeshiva in Lakewood were adamantly against this guy!!

Oh and if someone from Mexico told me that a bottle of Coke cost 50 cents in Mexico unlike $1.50 in America, and there is a Bodega on the corner of La cintego and Amigo Blvd that sells it for 45 cents on Friday afternoons....  I would believe him! I have little personal knowledge of how much soda costs in Mexico - and the guy insists that it is so! Why assume he's lying???

Again, do you really think he gets on the phone and does fact checking before signing things????
By saying that he trusts everyone with long titles and long beards, you are questioning his judgment. He trusts who he trusts, by questioning who he trusts, you are questioning his judgement, which is disrespectful.
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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #827 on: May 13, 2012, 11:39:53 PM »
i happen to know the shoel in this video and he has a personal relationship with rav shtienman shlita.

Offline MarkS

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #828 on: May 13, 2012, 11:43:26 PM »
By saying that he trusts everyone with long titles and long beards, you are questioning his judgment. He trusts who he trusts, by questioning who he trusts, you are questioning his judgement, which is disrespectful.
Well, you claim to be a Lamdan, and yet you are sounding a bit naive!!  The fact is that people have gotten letters from Gedolim, and when the Godol was contacted it turned out that they were presented with a one sided story and when hearing all the facts retracted their view.
Does that mean that they are not completely 100% infallible? Possibly! The Shevatim made mistakes too!

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #829 on: May 13, 2012, 11:48:05 PM »
Well, you claim to be a Lamdan, and yet you are sounding a bit naive!! 
the gedolim are lamdanim and you claim they are naive! Now you're saying they make mistakes like the shevatim, b4 you were saying every guy with a long beard and long title they trust. The shevatim's mistakes (kaveyachol) weren't stupid mistakes like that.
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #830 on: May 13, 2012, 11:59:27 PM »
@MarkS, if you believe the story that he signed a letter to vote for a guy, to help out a yid, you'd better look in the mirror b4 you call people naive. It reminds me of the guy that called Bob Grant and said the jews are so naive, I was in Jerusalem and the tour guide showed us a lady that is waiting in the same place for 40 years for mashiach, Bob Grant responded, look in the mirror and see whos naive, you trusted that tour guide! ;D
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Offline Saver2000

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #831 on: May 14, 2012, 12:11:59 AM »
Picture the scene: If someone comes to him and misrepresents facts - and he believes the person (in their persistence), it could (and has happened before) result in his signature on something that if explained to him properly he would never have signed.

No one is saying he's not smart enough to figure out his own opinion, but being that he is very insulated and doesn't have much 'street experience' ( a good thing!) it's possible for someone to misrepresent facts to him.........


+1

@lamdan
MarkS has proved his point with actual stories that happened.  You just keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

It is well known that many times the psak of a godel is taken out of context. In some instances the godel gave advice to a specific person tailored for their specific needs /tzorah. They then go and publicize the psak as if it was meant for gantz klal yisrael.

On other occasions , it is just plain misrepresentation as MarkS explained above.

If you don't believe that these scenarios happen/happened/happens, then you are very naive and clueless.

Offline Lamdan

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #832 on: May 14, 2012, 12:54:38 AM »
+1

@lamdan
MarkS has proved his point with actual stories that happened.  You just keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

It is well known that many times the psak of a godel is taken out of context. In some instances the godel gave advice to a specific person tailored for their specific needs /tzorah. They then go and publicize the psak as if it was meant for gantz klal yisrael.

On other occasions , it is just plain misrepresentation as MarkS explained above.

If you don't believe that these scenarios happen/happened/happens, then you are very naive and clueless.
1. he told 1 story, not stories.
2. the story he told isn't actual just because he told it, i was in lakewood in 2010 and no such letter was written by r' shteinman, and MarkS' explanation of why the letter was written is pure hearsay "reid in the cofferoom" i wouldn't call it "actual stories".
3. Oy lador that ppl w/ emunas chachamim are called naive and clueless.
4. your argument about taken out of context is not what MarkS is saying
5.when you say something and the other guy doesn't sufficiently answer your argument, you repeat yourself.
6. I hope you don't take this personal, and continue helping me out on the CC forum as you have in the past.
7. i've said what i have to say on this issue, like you were saying, i'm getting bored of repeating myself.
8. good night!
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Offline Saver2000

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #833 on: May 14, 2012, 01:05:14 AM »
1. he told 1 story, not stories.
2. the story he told isn't actual just because he told it, i was in lakewood in 2010 and no such letter was written by r' shteinman, and MarkS' explanation of why the letter was written is pure hearsay "reid in the cofferoom" i wouldn't call it "actual stories".
3. Oy lador that ppl w/ emunas chachamim are called naive and clueless.
4. your argument about taken out of context is not what MarkS is saying
5.when you say something and the other guy doesn't sufficiently answer your argument, you repeat yourself.
6. I hope you don't take this personal, and continue helping me out on the CC forum as you have in the past.
7. i've said what i have to say on this issue, like you were saying, i'm getting bored of repeating myself.
8. good night!

Lol, you totally missed the boat.

I said it is well known , I just used MarkS's story as an example. I myself know other stories.

And by the way, if you were in lkwd in 2010 and you don't know the story, you truly are clueless. I guess for some reasons the classic examples of cases "taken out of context" or "misrepresentation" never made it to your ears.

I was in lkwd when that story happened and I can confirm - as far as my knowledge - that the facts were like MarkS described. (Obviously I dont know the true real facts, but that was the story that was going around. It was actually very funny at that time)

Offline ChAiM'l

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #834 on: May 14, 2012, 08:40:57 AM »
+1

@lamdan
MarkS has proved his point with actual stories that happened.  You just keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

The reason I didn't bother replying in the first place. You won't get anywhere with them...

Offline Lamdan

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #835 on: May 14, 2012, 09:18:32 AM »
The reason I didn't bother replying in the first place. You won't get anywhere with them...
i bothered replying because i believe we could get somewhere with you guys.
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #836 on: May 14, 2012, 09:20:30 AM »
Lol, you totally missed the boat.

I said it is well known , I just used MarkS's story as an example. I myself know other stories.

And by the way, if you were in lkwd in 2010 and you don't know the story, you truly are clueless. I guess for some reasons the classic examples of cases "taken out of context" or "misrepresentation" never made it to your ears.

I was in lkwd when that story happened and I can confirm - as far as my knowledge - that the facts were like MarkS described. (Obviously I dont know the true real facts, but that was the story that was going around. It was actually very funny at that time)
try to refresh your memory, but i repeat, it wasn't r' shteinman.
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Offline MarkS

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #837 on: May 14, 2012, 10:29:05 AM »
try to refresh your memory, but i repeat, it wasn't r' shteinman.
I had sort of dropped out of this discussion seeing that you refuse to see the reality.

However, to set the record straight:
It was Rav Shteinman!!! On rereading the story, it is more of a misrepresentation by the press of what Rav Shteinman meant (Which is another large aspect of this inyan). Let's just say that if Rav Shteinman had any idea of what was going on in Lakewood at the time in regard to HH he would not have written this letter!!!

HH later went on to write that He gets his advice on tough subjects from daas torah. He consults with his local rov on many mundane issues, and has a close connection to Rabbi Shteinman in Israel for more complicated ones 

As an aside, although this wasn't what I was referring to, see also:
Matzav - Rav Malkiel pens a letter saying Rav Shteinman's view on a NJ election
The Lakewood Scoop - Rav Malkiel pens a letter saying Rav Shteinman's view on a NJ election - clearer pic of letter
Rav Yisroel Neuman says that the question wasn't worded properly to Rav Shteinman (or all pertinent facts weren't presented) and Rav Shteinman asks Rav Malkiel not to release the letter (unless it's been published already...).

which goes hand in hand with
Hundreds in BMG signing a petition to the VAAD to retract their endorsement for that candidate.

Additionally, back on topic a little bit, here's an article discussing the video:
http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/the-lakewood-shopper/issue48onlinesmall/#42
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 12:08:02 PM by MarkS »

Offline JEWDA

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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #838 on: May 14, 2012, 11:51:27 AM »
I think this convo should be moved to OT Thread
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Re: The funny/strange/interesting video thread...
« Reply #839 on: May 14, 2012, 02:07:54 PM »
The reason I didn't bother replying in the first place. You won't get anywhere with them...

Wow, What a classic! The reason you didn't bother replying is because you obviously have nothing to say. Your agenda and bias is clear in the comment you made.  Sometimes we (or "them") make mistakes it's okay, a little humility goes a long way.

And thanks for showing your colors once again by labeling myself and lamdan and anyone else who beleive in daas torah and in the issur of lo sasur (which the chinuch writes, is even when they are mistaken) one of "them", obviously you are smarter and more preceptive in discerning what is legitimate daas torah (there is none) than any one else or any of "them", which is backed up by your true first hand knowledge of nothing mixed together with your bias and what you choose to beleive in order to calm your coscience.
sorry for speaking my mind so bluntly, i hope you'll forgive me. Hatzlacha Rabbah.
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