Topic Wiki

https://chrissmith.house.gov/contact/zipauth.htm

type in 08701 for zip code

Quote from Cholent:

"If we believe we can't afford as a country to provide this benefit as it stands, then cut evenly across the board, or identify less at risk groups, like healthy adults, and cut them from the program. Cutting benefits from children from large families is a moral judgment that poor people should not have large families."
« Last edited by Baruch on May 24, 2017, 10:52:09 PM »

Author Topic: Budget to penalize large families!  (Read 23691 times)

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2638
  • Total likes: 218
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2017, 03:35:11 PM »
First of all, why are you assuming I'm not one of these families, or don't come from one of them? I just understand that what I get for free is a blessing and if I no longer receive it, that's life.
I would perhaps agree with that sentiment, if they stopped FS altogether. But if they are targeting large families, I look at it at a direct attack on the frum community, and it's ideologies. (Let's be blunt, 50% of the effected would be frum)

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2638
  • Total likes: 218
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2017, 03:36:47 PM »
FTFY
I don't dislike him. I hate him.

But, honestly, this has nothing to do with that.

When was the last time I posted anything political on these forums?

This bill will cause massive poverty in your communities.

Why am I facing so much opposition!?!

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5403
  • Total likes: 687
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2017, 03:37:18 PM »
So you don't care that the goverments policy is that FS is given to all children, besides for children from large families?

If you want to cut FS, that's a different discussion.

This is a proposal to just target large families.

And, BTW, this bill doesn't effect my family. Shockingly, I actually care about poor families.
You really can't understand this can you? It's not looked at per child amount, that's just how they decide an amount to give you. Regardless they are cutting the total you are receiving as a benefit, not an entitlement. Learn to be happy with what you have. And how dare you accuse me of not caring for the poor! If you had any clue who I was or where I came from, I highly doubt you'd be saying that.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline chinagel

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 3539
  • Total likes: 271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2017, 03:39:10 PM »
I don't dislike him. I hate him.

But, honestly, this has nothing to do with that.

When was the last time I posted anything political on these forums?

This bill will cause massive poverty in your communities.

Why am I facing so much opposition!?!
i wasnt getting involved in that discussion. just saying you cant stand the guy and claim the reason you are against the bill is cuz you care so much for poor families. the optics do not look like that. FTR many kollelim that give money per kid cap it after a few kids and they definitely are not against large families.

Offline precise

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 104
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2017, 03:40:06 PM »
but what does that have to do with only cutting it for large families?

And what does it have to do with the many families, where both parents work, and need FS to survive?

Why is your knee jerk reaction to defend a disastrous proposal for many frum large families?

Perhaps you just don't care enough.

Some genius leftist with a rich history of fake news issues a report and you buy it all and are already sending people to call their congressmen?!?! Relax a bit. I guarantee you if you will read other articles from other sources you'll see so much benefits to this budget that you might send people to call their congress representatives to support it.

Generally speaking a good economy is much much better for Everybody including the FRUM community than having food stamps. What good did Obama do by increasing the food stamps if the economy was down the drain and food costed more?

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2638
  • Total likes: 218
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2017, 03:40:41 PM »
You really can't understand this can you? It's not looked at per child amount, that's just how they decide an amount to give you. Regardless they are cutting the total you are receiving as a benefit, not an entitlement. Learn to be happy with what you have. And how dare you accuse me of not caring for the poor! If you had any clue who I was or where I came from, I highly doubt you'd be saying that.
I'm judging you by your words.


To be so indifferent to a bill that would cause widespread poverty in our communities, no matter what the justification, can only come from indifference IMHO.


Rav Elchonon Hy"d asked a bachur for a sefer to borrow, the bachur replied : "I b'shita don't lend my seforim", Rav Elchonon replied "b'kitzur you're b'shita an achzar".

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2638
  • Total likes: 218
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2017, 03:41:58 PM »
Some genius leftist with a rich history of fake news issues a report and you buy it all and are already sending people to call their congressmen?!?! Relax a bit. I guarantee you if you will read other articles from other sources you'll see so much benefits to this budget that you might send people to call their congress representatives to support it.

Generally speaking a good economy is much much better for Everybody including the FRUM community than having food stamps. What good did Obama do by increasing the food stamps if the economy was down the drain and food costed more?
I meant to call your congressmen to gut this proposal from the bill. The rest of the bill is another discussion

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5403
  • Total likes: 687
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2017, 03:43:34 PM »
I'm judging you by your words.


To be so indifferent to a bill that would cause widespread poverty in our communities, no matter what the justification, can only come from indifference IMHO.


Rav Elchonon Hy"d asked a bachur for a sefer to borrow, the bachur replied : "I b'shita don't lend my seforim", Rav Elchonon replied "b'kitzur you're b'shita an achzar".
a good amount of these families might not even qualify for food stamps if they didn't get paid under the table. To each their own. I'm no fan of the government taking my hard earned money, but it's a 2 way street.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline Freddie

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 3110
  • Total likes: 279
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Pittsburgh
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2017, 03:44:43 PM »
Ha! And all the DDF "experts" thought that astroglide would be the popcorn thread!

Offline asd

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 286
  • Total likes: 6
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: nj
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2017, 03:51:20 PM »
The issue here is having rachmunos on your fellow jew  even if you don't agree with the policy we are called rachmunim b'nei rachmunim for a reason ( even if it doesn't comport to your political views)

Offline asd

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 286
  • Total likes: 6
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: nj
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2017, 03:59:31 PM »
a good amount of these families might not even qualify for food stamps if they didn't get paid under the table. To each their own. I'm no fan of the government taking my hard earned money, but it's a 2 way street.
To speak loshon hora on a rabbim is a serious issur I don't envy you.

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5403
  • Total likes: 687
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2017, 04:06:50 PM »
The issue here is having rachmunos on your fellow jew  even if you don't agree with the policy we are called rachmunim b'nei rachmunim for a reason ( even if it doesn't comport to your political views)
I do have rahmanos on my fellow Jews, and I have done and will continue to do a lot for the poor in my community. That can easily be done without getting involved in this.
To speak loshon hora on a rabbim is a serious issur I don't envy you.
I don't need your envy. I appreciate your concern
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline Freddie

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 3110
  • Total likes: 279
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Pittsburgh
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2017, 04:07:08 PM »
To speak loshon hora on a rabbim is a serious issur I don't envy you.

It reminds me of the joke about the rabbi who gets up to the pulpit and says, "Half of this congregation is made up of liars and cheaters!"  The president of the congregation tell the rabbi that this is unacceptable and he has to fix it next week. Next Shabbos he gets up to the pulpit and says, "Half of this congregation is not made up of liars and cheaters!"

Offline yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 6656
  • Total likes: 1358
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2017, 04:12:48 PM »
Wow. Looks like some Chassidim are fahrkished with Trump and everything he does. Someone should teach them what the term "fanboys" mean.

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5403
  • Total likes: 687
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2017, 04:14:08 PM »
Wow. Looks like some Chassidim are fahrkished with Trump and everything he does. Someone should teach them what the term "fanboys" mean.
Funny, I actually look at this completely for what it is, not the person proposing it.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Online yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 7411
  • Total likes: 1760
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2017, 04:15:02 PM »
This bill will cause massive poverty in your communities.

Interesting, I didn't realize that the bill will cause poverty.
I naively thought that food stamps were meant for poor people.

Offline precise

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 104
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2017, 04:48:48 PM »
Wow. Looks like some Chassidim are fahrkished with Trump and everything he does. Someone should teach them what the term "fanboys" mean.
Bush, Obama, Trump couldn't care less the name. Every decent American knows and feels that the economy (and plenty of other stuff) in the USA was very bad over the last few years. Now we all- including the chasidim- are all hoping that Trump will not fall prey to the swamp and get the economy going.
To sum it up we are all farkished in a good economy so we can support our families like decent human beings without needing food stamps or kasher gelt under the table

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6672
  • Total likes: 1086
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2017, 05:28:18 PM »
Ha! And all the DDF "experts" thought that astroglide would be the popcorn thread!
They should combine the two as cause and effect.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline cholent

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 2258
  • Total likes: 256
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2017, 05:54:28 PM »
You really can't understand this can you? It's not looked at per child amount, that's just how they decide an amount to give you. Regardless they are cutting the total you are receiving as a benefit, not an entitlement. Learn to be happy with what you have. And how dare you accuse me of not caring for the poor! If you had any clue who I was or where I came from, I highly doubt you'd be saying that.
Of course it's looked at as a per child amount. Up to 8 family members, each additional qualifying child increases the benefit amount, which is logical - each child needs to eat. After that, under this proposal, the benefit would be capped. That means in practical terms that child number 7 and on receive no food stamp benefit.
If we as a country believe that there is some level of social responsibility that the government bears to ensure its citizens don't go hungry, then this cut makes no sense. Every child, including those in large families, should get the benefit they qualify for based on family income. If we believe we can't afford as a country to provide this benefit as it stands, then cut evenly across the board, or identify less at risk groups, like healthy adults, and cut them from the program. Cutting benefits from children from large families is a moral judgment that poor people should not have large families
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline YOSEF

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 2189
  • Total likes: 23
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2017, 06:07:18 PM »
@Baruch et al.

Do you understand the economic policy here? More elementary, do you understand that what's happening here might be economic policy?

I personally don't know exactly what is going on, but in the typical economic policy that Fiscally Conservative Politicians tend to adopt, is to address the "living wage" vs social programs issue. This is one of the major sticking points (for all people, not just Conservatives), that basically looks at how much can a breadwinner(s) earn at a job vs programs.

Now someone with a larger family needs to earn alot more than a single parent with one child in order for it to "pay" to work and not get programs. This is not up for discussion. It is fact.

How would you encourage the large family to work? This is one possible way. If you lower the benefits, and now a job that was below the "benefit package" before, is above, maybe the breadwinner will take that job offer.

I am no means saying it doesn't affect people in our community, but I don't think he is targeting Jews. Maybe, just maybe, he is targeting the segment of the population that currently needs to make more than they can in order for it to be more profitable to work.

Suggested reading: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/the_work_versus_welfare_trade-off_2013_wp.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwig6LGyxInUAhVBwiYKHabmD14QFggoMAI&usg=AFQjCNFVhZzd1SpzJHhKJJ6c6HOYMjJxpw&sig2=CJN29dQPVz19aPtGjrluyg

Please note that the numbers in that study assume a single parent with two dependants.

PS. Please keep in mind that employers, unlike the government, don't pay more if you have more children, and as such, while maybe you feel that they should cut the amount per hungry mouth, it won't have the same effect given the employer "issue".
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 06:18:09 PM by YOSEF »