Budget to penalize large families!

[aygart]

Yes.  And for many ppl it will be.

But, it still changes the numbers on whether it makes sense to own a house.

True. This is a separate discussion from whether or not it hurts large families. The other question is overall whether or not the tax code should be used to incentivize home ownership and what affect it has on prices. This may actually make it easier for many families to own a house if the playing field is now even between them and those who benefit from tax incentives.

[skyguy918]

well, most ppl who are currently deducting their mortgage will be majorly cut back. Or SALT. Or charity.

For example, if you currently have 10k of local income tax, 10k of property tax, 8k of mortgage interest, and 10k of charity.  So today you are deducting 38k, which is 26 more than the standard deduction.

Even assuming all of those remain deductible, since the standard deduction is now 24 (and that doesn't give you much, since they traded that for your and your wife's personal exemption), you deduct 38k which is 14k more than standard deduction. So you lost 12k of deduction.

But really, if you also now can't deduct the state income tax, you only have 28k, so you lost 22k of deduction.

You didn't lose any deduction in your examples (except SALT obviously). You lost relative to standard. That's why I said it's an implicit loss, not an explicit loss.

[churnbabychurn]

well, most ppl who are currently deducting their mortgage will be majorly cut back. Or SALT. Or charity.

For example, if you currently have 10k of local income tax, 10k of property tax, 8k of mortgage interest, and 10k of charity.  So today you are deducting 38k, which is 26 more than the standard deduction.

Even assuming all of those remain deductible, since the standard deduction is now 24 (and that doesn't give you much, since they traded that for your and your wife's personal exemption), you deduct 38k which is 14k more than standard deduction. So you lost 12k of deduction.

But really, if you also now can't deduct the state income tax, you only have 28k, so you lost 22k of deduction.

Property tax deduction capped at 10k. Sucks for ppl in NJ

[michael]

Or those who can arrange it to be so.

Henche, this is where tax lawyers come in.

[aygart]

Henche, this is where tax lawyers come in.

+100000000000
Especially since everyone who already had a tax strategy now needs a new one. That is also the issue with repealing the estate tax but also repealing the step up in basis

[churnbabychurn]

+100000000000
Especially since everyone who already had a tax strategy now needs a new one. That is also the issue with repealing the estate tax but also repealing the step up in basis

Repealing step up in basis? Oy vey

[henche]

You didn't lose any deduction in your examples (except SALT obviously). You lost relative to standard. That's why I said it's an implicit loss, not an explicit loss.

I think you did, because the higher standard deduction was traded for personal exemptions. 

[aygart]

Repealing step up in basis? Oy vey

I don't think that made it to the bill as it is now, but was discussed and may still be.

[skyguy918]

I think you did, because the higher standard deduction was traded for personal exemptions.

He said:

No salt deduction, no mortgage interest deduction if mortgage above 500k. -very bad for NY NJ.

And obviously the massive one - no personal exemptions 4k per person!

Then you said:

It's worse than that.  No itemized deductions at all until 24k.  So basically, no mortgage deduction.

The damage was ultimately done with the removal of personal exemptions. You haven't lost anything else from your deductions by the raising of the standard deduction. All that's happened is you missed out on the trade-off of eliminating personal exemptions (ie raising the standard deduction).

[hachover]

What a mess. They have no idea who its going to help and who its going to hurt. I think Paul Jackson Pollock was on the drafting committee

[henche]

He said:Then you said:The damage was ultimately done with the removal of personal exemptions. You haven't lost anything else from your deductions by the raising of the standard deduction. All that's happened is you missed out on the trade-off of eliminating personal exemptions (ie raising the standard deduction).

Fine

[henche]

What a mess. They have no idea who its going to help and who its going to hurt. I think Paul Jackson Pollock was on the drafting committee

I know.  It helps poor ppl, red state ppl. It hurts upper middle class,  especially blue states. Helps rich ppl.

[yitzf]

I don't think that made it to the bill as it is now, but was discussed and may still be.

It's not in the current bill.

[hachover]

I know.  It helps poor ppl, red state ppl. It hurts upper middle class,  especially blue states. Helps rich ppl.

My insiders said they need 24 hours to reach a definitive conclusion but maybe they should just call you 😛

I think if it turns out as you said, it has no chance of passing. In this political climate do you think they can get the votes to agree to raise revenue on just the middle class?

[henche]

My insiders said they need 24 hours to reach a definitive conclusion but maybe they should just call you 😛

I think if it turns out as you said, it has no chance of passing. In this political climate do you think they can get the votes to agree to raise revenue on just the middle class?

Depends who we mean by middle class.  I'm going to guess maybe 10 to 20 percent of ppl. But that's a total guess

[hachover]

My insiders said they need 24 hours to reach a definitive conclusion but maybe they should just call you 😛

I think if it turns out as you said, it has no chance of passing. In this political climate do you think they can get the votes to agree to raise revenue on just the middle class?

Do you mean the "Dream Horders"?

[churnbabychurn]

What a mess. They have no idea who its going to help and who its going to hurt. I think Paul Jackson Pollock was on the drafting committee

It's awful for large frum taxpaying families who live in high taxing states, with high property taxes and lots of charity and maybe even college bills.

[aygart]

My insiders said they need 24 hours to reach a definitive conclusion but maybe they should just call you 😛

I think if it turns out as you said, it has no chance of passing. In this political climate do you think they can get the votes to agree to raise revenue on just the middle class?

Is there any chance of blue state dem votes anyhow?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I know.  It helps poor ppl, red state ppl. It hurts upper middle class,  especially blue states. Helps rich ppl.

You make sound like politics was involved.

[aygart]

You make sound like politics was involved.

chas vsholom. In Washington they only do things lshem shamayim. Especially when investigating a member of the other party.