Topic Wiki

https://chrissmith.house.gov/contact/zipauth.htm

type in 08701 for zip code

Quote from Cholent:

"If we believe we can't afford as a country to provide this benefit as it stands, then cut evenly across the board, or identify less at risk groups, like healthy adults, and cut them from the program. Cutting benefits from children from large families is a moral judgment that poor people should not have large families."
« Last edited by Baruch on May 24, 2017, 10:52:09 PM »

Author Topic: Budget to penalize large families!  (Read 14245 times)

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2492
  • Total likes: 78
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #75 on: May 25, 2017, 02:24:21 PM »
his whole "theory" is true. I know people who at one point chose to only work half day because they would have less money overall if they worked a full day which would be putting them over the limit for earning benefits.
That's true, but why target large families? Those limits go up, when the family is larger.

When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 6821
  • Total likes: 1530
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 7
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #76 on: May 25, 2017, 02:36:38 PM »
Foodstamps only deducts 20-30% of income, not 100%, so your whole theory is a non starter.

If 20-30% would make you not work, then we can't have taxes.

And please stop talking about the president, he has nothing to do with these proposals. It doesn't interest him, and he's never thought about these things.

And saying that politicians are saying they're doing something because of A, but it's really because of B, is not a conspiracy theory, it's accusing them of being politicians, which is what they are.

30% Foodstamps
30% Sec 8
8%   FICA
15% Taxes
15% Health Insurance (est)
30% Welfare I don't know the real number for this
128% of salary lost
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline cholent

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 1915
  • Total likes: 97
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #77 on: May 25, 2017, 02:54:34 PM »
A simpler fix would be to slowly ramp down benefits instead of having a cliff. This happens to some extent but not enough. This way a person would always come out ahead by working more since they would lose some benefits but not enough to make working a losing proposition overall

Regardless, the stated goal of snap is to reduce hunger among poor people. Whatever the reasoning for cutting the program, doing it in a way that disproportionately affects large families is a contradiction to the  actual program's purpose. It certainly is not pork
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline cholent

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 1915
  • Total likes: 97
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #78 on: May 25, 2017, 02:56:24 PM »
30% Foodstamps
30% Sec 8
8%   FICA
15% Taxes
15% Health Insurance (est)
30% Welfare I don't know the real number for this
128% of salary lost
I don't know all the real numbers here either, but I do know that it's difficult and therefore rare to receive all of these programs simultaneously and certainly not for extended periods of time. Welfare is currently very limited, difficult to qualify for, and short term only
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 5559
  • Total likes: 251
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #79 on: May 25, 2017, 03:05:55 PM »
That's true, but why target large families? Those limits go up, when the family is larger.

If they can earn $2500 a month, and they get $1500 from welfare, they have an incentive to work. If they can receive $3500 in welfare (due to large family), they have no incentive to work, because their income is staying the same at $2500.

Disregard the actual numbers but that's the basic idea that I understand.
Live forever or die trying.

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2492
  • Total likes: 78
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2017, 03:11:20 PM »
If they can earn $2500 a month, and they get $1500 from welfare, they have an incentive to work. If they can receive $3500 in welfare (due to large family), they have no incentive to work, because their income is staying the same at $2500.

Disregard the actual numbers but that's the basic idea that I understand.
The numbers just don't add up, because the threshold to lose the benefits is higher, being that they have a larger family.
When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 6821
  • Total likes: 1530
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 7
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #81 on: May 25, 2017, 03:15:35 PM »
I don't know all the real numbers here either, but I do know that it's difficult and therefore rare to receive all of these programs simultaneously and certainly not for extended periods of time. Welfare is currently very limited, difficult to qualify for, and short term only
I have no clue about Welfare but I know that I have numerous acquaintances who get FS, Sec8, and health
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline cholent

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 1915
  • Total likes: 97
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #82 on: May 25, 2017, 03:19:34 PM »
I have no clue about Welfare but I know that I have numerous acquaintances who get FS, Sec8, and health
From what I understand, in many areas (certainly in Lakewood) it is impossible to get onto section 8 and has been close to impossible for many years
Food stamps and health are available to everyone as long as they qualify. A gradual ramp down of benefits vs a cliff would encourage program participants to earn as much as possible
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 6821
  • Total likes: 1530
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 7
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #83 on: May 25, 2017, 03:23:25 PM »
From what I understand, in many areas (certainly in Lakewood) it is impossible to get onto section 8 and has been close to impossible for many years
Food stamps and health are available to everyone as long as they qualify. A gradual ramp down of benefits vs a cliff would encourage program participants to earn as much as possible
People with large famlies have had long enough to get on.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Sport

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2221
  • Total likes: 71
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #84 on: May 25, 2017, 03:28:27 PM »
A simpler fix would be to slowly ramp down benefits instead of having a cliff. This happens to some extent but not enough. This way a person would always come out ahead by working more since they would lose some benefits but not enough to make working a losing proposition overall

Regardless, the stated goal of snap is to reduce hunger among poor people. Whatever the reasoning for cutting the program, doing it in a way that disproportionately affects large families is a contradiction to the  actual program's purpose. It certainly is not pork
The alternative  would be to cut snap benefits evenly across the board. Wouldn't that have the same bottom line effect on large families? 

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 6821
  • Total likes: 1530
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 7
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #85 on: May 25, 2017, 03:32:51 PM »
The alternative  would be to cut snap benefits evenly across the board. Wouldn't that have the same bottom line effect on large families? 
math is hard.

ETA: It actually would not affect them the same because some of the burden would be shared by smaller families. The difference may not be what he thinks though.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 03:37:43 PM by aygart »
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Sport

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2221
  • Total likes: 71
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #86 on: May 25, 2017, 03:33:18 PM »

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2492
  • Total likes: 78
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #87 on: May 25, 2017, 03:41:54 PM »
The alternative  would be to cut snap benefits evenly across the board. Wouldn't that have the same bottom line effect on large families?
But that wouldn't pass in congress, because it would hurt too many people.

Targeting large families, is a way of cutting , while losing the least politically. Because there are only 200k large families on FS.
When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline Sport

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2221
  • Total likes: 71
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #88 on: May 25, 2017, 04:35:23 PM »
But that wouldn't pass in congress, because it would hurt too many people.

Targeting large families, is a way of cutting , while losing the least politically. Because there are only 200k large families on FS.
Would you be opposed to cross the board cuts?

Offline YOSEF

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 2164
  • Total likes: 13
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16
    • View Profile
Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #89 on: May 25, 2017, 05:23:18 PM »
If they can earn $2500 a month, and they get $1500 from welfare, they have an incentive to work. If they can receive $3500 in welfare (due to large family), they have no incentive to work, because their income is staying the same at $2500.

Disregard the actual numbers but that's the basic idea that I understand.
Ding ding ding.
Winner winner chicken dinner!!

As much as the overreaching government has accomplished, they still haven't forced employers to pay based on family size, and until that happens, people's earning potential won't change based on number of kids.