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Quote from Cholent:

"If we believe we can't afford as a country to provide this benefit as it stands, then cut evenly across the board, or identify less at risk groups, like healthy adults, and cut them from the program. Cutting benefits from children from large families is a moral judgment that poor people should not have large families."
« Last edited by Baruch on May 24, 2017, 10:52:09 PM »

Author Topic: Budget to penalize large families!  (Read 14713 times)

Offline Baruch

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #90 on: May 25, 2017, 08:11:22 PM »
Ding ding ding.
Winner winner chicken dinner!!

As much as the overreaching government has accomplished, they still haven't forced employers to pay based on family size, and until that happens, people's earning potential won't change based on number of kids.
That still doesn't explain why people with larger families, need more of an incentive to work.
Being that the limit of income to qualify rises per child.
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Offline chinagel

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #91 on: May 25, 2017, 08:22:47 PM »
That still doesn't explain why people with larger families, need more of an incentive to work.
Being that the limit of income to qualify rises per child.
IINM it does not rise proportionally

Offline Baruch

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #92 on: May 25, 2017, 08:31:29 PM »
IINM it does not rise proportionally
You are mistaken
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Offline Baruch

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When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline chinagel

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #94 on: May 25, 2017, 09:48:40 PM »
You are mistaken
not the first time :)

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #95 on: May 25, 2017, 10:32:35 PM »
That still doesn't explain why people with larger families, need more of an incentive to work.
Being that the limit of income to qualify rises per child.
Let's assume Bob can get a job that pays $35K.
If Bob is a single father with 1 child, he will only make $25K equivalent off of programs.
If Bob is a father of 7, he will make $60K equivalent off of programs.

How do we get Bob the father of 7 to work?

Offline Baruch

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #96 on: May 25, 2017, 10:37:54 PM »
Let's assume Bob can get a job that pays $35K.
If Bob is a single father with 1 child, he will only make $25K equivalent off of programs.
If Bob is a father of 7, he will make $60K equivalent off of programs.

How do we get Bob the father of 7 to work?
You forgot that he needs more money because he has more kids.

Honestly, economics and numbers is clearly not your strength. :)
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Offline YOSEF

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #97 on: May 25, 2017, 10:42:01 PM »
You forgot that he needs more money because he has more kids.
I understand that. How did you answer my question?
Honestly, economics and numbers is clearly not your strength. :)
Stop being a jerk.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #98 on: May 25, 2017, 10:50:54 PM »
I understand that. How did you answer my question?Stop being a jerk.
I'm not being a jerk, your argument is illogical. It always was.

Why is there a smaller incentive for someone with a larger family to work?

The income is deducted from FS 20-30% regardless of family size.

The income limit rises with each child.

Each child costs the parents more money to support.

Anyone with a any sense realizes that the above numbers show, that as the family grows, the incentive to work does not decrease.

I can only conclude that economics is not your strong point.

That's OK. It's not mine either. (Though I have read dozens of books on Economics, from right, center and left. And am still not sure who's right.)

When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #99 on: May 25, 2017, 10:53:58 PM »
Honestly, economics and numbers is clearly not your strength. :)

Stop being a jerk.

@Baruch If you truly care about all jews and their wallets you should probably also care that you are insulting people left and right.

There is absolutely no need to put an insulting line in your posts degenerating the poster you are responding to.

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #100 on: May 25, 2017, 10:55:59 PM »
I'm not being a jerk, your argument is illogical. It always was.

Why is there a smaller incentive for someone with a larger family to work?

The income is deducted from FS 20-30% regardless of family size.

The income limit rises with each child.

Each child costs the parents more money to support.

Anyone with a any sense realizes that the above numbers show, that as the family grows, the incentive to work does not decrease.

I can only conclude that economics is not your strong point.

That's OK. It's not mine either. (Though I have read dozens of books on Economics, from right, center and left. And am still not sure who's right.)


I gave you an example of Bob. Please show me what is incorrect in my example.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #101 on: May 25, 2017, 10:58:27 PM »
@Baruch If you truly care about all jews and their wallets you should probably also care that you are insulting people left and right.

There is absolutely no need to put an insulting line in your posts degenerating the poster you are responding to.
I hear you. I apologize. Perhaps I am being too emotional about this.

But, I am shocked and saddened about how people can defend a proposal that will be disastrous to a significant portion of Klal yisrael. I am frankly angry.
When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline Baruch

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #102 on: May 25, 2017, 10:58:47 PM »
I gave you an example of Bob. Please show me what is incorrect in my example.
I give up. Sorry. One of us is not understanding the other.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 11:02:08 PM by Baruch »
When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline cholent

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #103 on: May 25, 2017, 11:03:56 PM »
Let's assume Bob can get a job that pays $35K.
If Bob is a single father with 1 child, he will only make $25K equivalent off of programs.
If Bob is a father of 7, he will make $60K equivalent off of programs.

How do we get Bob the father of 7 to work?
Bob the single father will lose his programs if he gets the job. Bob the father of the large family will continue to qualify, because both benefits and eligibility change with family size
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #104 on: May 25, 2017, 11:10:31 PM »
Bob the single father will lose his programs if he gets the job. Bob the father of the large family will continue to qualify, because both benefits and eligibility change with family size
Thank you for a response to my actual post.

I understand what you are saying, and have understood that.

To be clearer: how will Bob ever come off programs? He will always be stuck making just below the limit for programs, unless he somehow can make a HUGE leap (programs for a family of 6 or more people) from just below the limit plus programs to making enough to cover the spread.

How is Bob not stuck on programs?