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Quote from Cholent:

"If we believe we can't afford as a country to provide this benefit as it stands, then cut evenly across the board, or identify less at risk groups, like healthy adults, and cut them from the program. Cutting benefits from children from large families is a moral judgment that poor people should not have large families."
« Last edited by Baruch on May 24, 2017, 10:52:09 PM »

Author Topic: Budget to penalize large families!  (Read 13951 times)

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2017, 10:31:44 PM »
So you quote their cover up explanation, as the true explanation, and I have to respond?

Of course the christian right is not gonna say straight out, that they want poor blacks and Latinos to take birth control and abort!!

And that's all beside the point.

The main point is this is disastrous for the frum community.

I'm not an economist, guilty as charged.

But I want this proposal cut.

And I'm trying to bring awareness to it.

Everything else is besides the point. 
1. I didn't quote them. I didn't even see it until after someone else mentioned it after my post.

2. Did you read that study I linked to? Skim it through? It's real.

Either way, we don't need to attack others for their viewpoints. As I mentioned just recently, you want your pork barrel pushed through. Fine. But we don't need to go on the offensive to someone who doesn't agree.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2017, 10:38:27 PM »
1. I didn't quote them. I didn't even see it until after someone else mentioned it after my post.

2. Did you read that study I linked to? Skim it through? It's real.

Either way, we don't need to attack others for their viewpoints. As I mentioned just recently, you want your pork barrel pushed through. Fine. But we don't need to go on the offensive to someone who doesn't agree.
For every study there's another study showing the opposite.

It's like that in all sciences, climate, economics and all others. Each side spins for their side.

For you not to care about the fact, that literally hundreds of thousands of frumme yidden will be losing a lot of money. And many of them are genuinely poor. Because of some study and economics sevara you just read about. Shows me you don't care enough. Sorry, that's what I believe to be true.

Are you an Economist? Do you realize there are Nobel winning economists who laugh out loud when they hear about all this trickle down economics theory.

I'm not saying I know which side's right.

All I'm saying is that I'm not willing to risk my brethren as tests if this theories are true.

"Ven s'es tut vey, shrayt men"

BTW, I will not lose a penny if the proposal is approved. I just care about poor yidden.
 
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Offline asd

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2017, 10:46:38 PM »
For every study there's another study showing the opposite.

It's like that in all sciences, climate, economics and all others. Each side spins for their side.

For you not to care about the fact, that literally hundreds of thousands of frumme yidden will be losing a lot of money. And many of them are genuinely poor. Because of some study and economics sevara you just read about. Shows me you don't care enough. Sorry, that's what I believe to be true.

Are you an Economist? Do you realize there are Nobel winning economists who laugh out loud when they hear about all this trickle down economics theory.

I'm not saying I know which side's right.

All I'm saying is that I'm not willing to risk my brethren as tests if this theories are true.

"Ven s'es tut vey, shrayt men"

BTW, I will not lose a penny if the proposal is approved. I just care about poor yidden.
+1
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 11:00:35 PM by asd »

Offline Baruch

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2017, 10:51:45 PM »
When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2017, 12:21:36 AM »
Of course the christian right is not gonna say straight out, that they want poor blacks and Latinos to take birth control and abort!!
And lets not forget that Jews are not gonna say straight out they hate the poor Blacks and Latinos.  ::)
I just found a new supply of forks!

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2017, 12:23:15 AM »
And lets not forget that Jews are not gonna say straight out they hate the poor Blacks and Latinos.  ::)
Is my calendar wrong?
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #66 on: May 25, 2017, 12:28:39 AM »
Is my calendar wrong?
Maybe ask the person who made the DACOTYA?  :)
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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2017, 12:30:47 AM »
Maybe ask the person who made the DACOTYA?  :)
link?

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2017, 12:33:26 AM »
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline a mirrer

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #69 on: May 25, 2017, 04:43:35 AM »
For every study there's another study showing the opposite.

It's like that in all sciences, climate, economics and all others. Each side spins for their side.

For you not to care about the fact, that literally hundreds of thousands of frumme yidden will be losing a lot of money. And many of them are genuinely poor. Because of some study and economics sevara you just read about. Shows me you don't care enough. Sorry, that's what I believe to be true.

Are you an Economist? Do you realize there are Nobel winning economists who laugh out loud when they hear about all this trickle down economics theory.

I'm not saying I know which side's right.

All I'm saying is that I'm not willing to risk my brethren as tests if this theories are true.

"Ven s'es tut vey, shrayt men"

BTW, I will not lose a penny if the proposal is approved. I just care about poor yidden.
your ranting reminds me of all the frum politicians in Israel screaming bloody murder in 2003 when Bibi cut the kitzvaot while in the end his cuts are what most likely saved Israel from the recession in 08

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #70 on: May 25, 2017, 09:54:29 AM »
For every study there's another study showing the opposite.

It's like that in all sciences, climate, economics and all others. Each side spins for their side.

For you not to care about the fact, that literally hundreds of thousands of frumme yidden will be losing a lot of money. And many of them are genuinely poor. Because of some study and economics sevara you just read about. Shows me you don't care enough. Sorry, that's what I believe to be true.

Are you an Economist? Do you realize there are Nobel winning economists who laugh out loud when they hear about all this trickle down economics theory.
1. Let me explain something, and I hope it is clear enough. The study I posted is about fact. It isn't conjecture or economic theory.

There is a problem with the current status quo. For a family of 6 or 2 or 20 to come off programs, the people in the household with earning potential, need to be able to make more via working than via programs. That's a fact. You can argue, but that is a fact. It's a simple numbers game. If programs (A) is more than working (B) then what would any thinking person do? They would take option A as it is larger.

(So far, no "trickle down" economics or the like. Just as issue that needs to be solved, unless we want people to remain on programs long term.)

Agree? If not, please explain.

2. To solve the above issue, in a simple math equation solution when A is more than B and you want to reverse that, you can either raise the amount a job would earn or lower the amount programs give. This also is a fact. It's mathematics. In first grade. Not economist with agenda math. Not new math. The big old > or < math.
It may have a different solution (ask an economist), but the simplest solutions are to raise one or lower the other.

Again, so far, no trickle down economics or other mumbo gumbo. Just math.

3. How do you solve the above issue? This is where economists or conjecture comes in. It seems that the President thinks that we should lower programs. You can argue, and feel that we should raise wages. That is your right to an opinion.

4. You can claim that it is racist and a cover up etc. I can't prove your conspiracy theory wrong. But so far, you've mentioned racism (fact), cover up (fact), you've contradicted your own statements (fact), haven't responded to others (fact), and have labeled others that disagree with you (fact). I don't know for sure, but I think maybe you're thinking a wee bit emotionally, and not logically.

If you'd like to respond, fine, but please don't label me as someone who doesn't care enough, just because I don't think it's a conspiracy or cover up or racist.

I think the President has made an economic decision, that is hurting frum families, but I b'etzem don't disagree with it. I, as well as you, can call my Congressman and ask for him to put some pork barrel into the budget, in order to help frum Yidden. However, I view it as such, not a cover up or ideological attack.

Offline YOSEF

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #71 on: May 25, 2017, 10:09:40 AM »
https://chrissmith.house.gov/contact/zipauth.htm

type in 08701 for zip code
I actually clicked on the link, and now...wow...

To quote from the Congressman's webpage that has been linked to:
Quote
"I am very interested in hearing your views on issues of importance to you. Due to the large volume of US Mail, email and faxes I receive, I am only able to accept messages from residents of the 4th District of New Jersey. Congressional courtesy dictates that Representatives be given the opportunity to assist their own constituents.

Please provide the following information to help determine whether you reside within the 4th district of New Jersey:


Zip: "
You're essentially asking people who live elsewhere (and as such, don't know the zip code) to circumvent the Congressman's request and email him anyway? 

Offline Baruch

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #72 on: May 25, 2017, 02:00:46 PM »
I actually clicked on the link, and now...wow...

To quote from the Congressman's webpage that has been linked to:You're essentially asking people who live elsewhere (and as such, don't know the zip code) to circumvent the Congressman's request and email him anyway?
Yes.
When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline Baruch

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #73 on: May 25, 2017, 02:02:35 PM »
1. Let me explain something, and I hope it is clear enough. The study I posted is about fact. It isn't conjecture or economic theory.

There is a problem with the current status quo. For a family of 6 or 2 or 20 to come off programs, the people in the household with earning potential, need to be able to make more via working than via programs. That's a fact. You can argue, but that is a fact. It's a simple numbers game. If programs (A) is more than working (B) then what would any thinking person do? They would take option A as it is larger.

(So far, no "trickle down" economics or the like. Just as issue that needs to be solved, unless we want people to remain on programs long term.)

Agree? If not, please explain.

2. To solve the above issue, in a simple math equation solution when A is more than B and you want to reverse that, you can either raise the amount a job would earn or lower the amount programs give. This also is a fact. It's mathematics. In first grade. Not economist with agenda math. Not new math. The big old > or < math.
It may have a different solution (ask an economist), but the simplest solutions are to raise one or lower the other.

Again, so far, no trickle down economics or other mumbo gumbo. Just math.

3. How do you solve the above issue? This is where economists or conjecture comes in. It seems that the President thinks that we should lower programs. You can argue, and feel that we should raise wages. That is your right to an opinion.

4. You can claim that it is racist and a cover up etc. I can't prove your conspiracy theory wrong. But so far, you've mentioned racism (fact), cover up (fact), you've contradicted your own statements (fact), haven't responded to others (fact), and have labeled others that disagree with you (fact). I don't know for sure, but I think maybe you're thinking a wee bit emotionally, and not logically.

If you'd like to respond, fine, but please don't label me as someone who doesn't care enough, just because I don't think it's a conspiracy or cover up or racist.

I think the President has made an economic decision, that is hurting frum families, but I b'etzem don't disagree with it. I, as well as you, can call my Congressman and ask for him to put some pork barrel into the budget, in order to help frum Yidden. However, I view it as such, not a cover up or ideological attack.
Foodstamps only deducts 20-30% of income, not 100%, so your whole theory is a non starter.

If 20-30% would make you not work, then we can't have taxes.

And please stop talking about the president, he has nothing to do with these proposals. It doesn't interest him, and he's never thought about these things.

And saying that politicians are saying they're doing something because of A, but it's really because of B, is not a conspiracy theory, it's accusing them of being politicians, which is what they are.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 02:26:29 PM by Baruch »
When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Budget to penalize large families!
« Reply #74 on: May 25, 2017, 02:05:09 PM »
Foodstamps only deducts 20-30% of income, not 100%, so your whole theory is a non starter.

If 20-30% would make you not work, then we can't have taxes.

his whole "theory" is true. I know people who at one point chose to only work half day because they would have less money overall if they worked a full day which would be putting them over the limit for earning benefits.