Author Topic: Origins Of Chassidus (The Good the Bad and the Ugly) And Is there A bad Jew?  (Read 12705 times)

Offline Dan

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Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #61 on: June 07, 2017, 03:53:39 PM »
In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.
You just reminded me of a programming course I took years ago... had an assignment to write a recursive function to solve a common game (tower of Hanoi).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #62 on: June 07, 2017, 08:48:13 PM »
Could it be that he was misled?

see for example: http://old2.ih.chabad.info/images/notimage/66250_he_1.pdf

Also, don't forget that he didn't have the benefit of over 200 years of history, on which he could have based his judgment, he might have only been assuming outcomes.
The points upon which it was based were listed specifically.
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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #63 on: June 08, 2017, 01:58:26 AM »
The points upon which it was based were listed specifically.
Not sure what you are referring to.

In any event, while doing some searching about the topic I came across this fascinating read.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2017, 02:59:15 AM »
Not sure what you are referring to.

In any event, while doing some searching about the topic I came across this fascinating read.
The cherem listed I think seven specific items and was not based on predictions for the future.
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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2017, 03:38:41 PM »
The cherem listed I think seven specific items and was not based on predictions for the future.
Only thing I found is http://jewishhistory.huji.ac.il/kuntress/Chassidiana/chassidiana6_28.pdf which quotes it on page 10 (page 5 of the PDF).

I do read there 7 or 8 items, and still stand by my assertion that the benefit of over 200 years of Chassidus disproves some of those (especially casting some of them on this generation). A recommended read to put things into context is: http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=23647&st=&pgnum=101&hilite= especially sections ב and ד as they relate to the specifics of the חרם.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #66 on: June 08, 2017, 03:49:05 PM »
Only thing I found is http://jewishhistory.huji.ac.il/kuntress/Chassidiana/chassidiana6_28.pdf which quotes it on page 10 (page 5 of the PDF).

I do read there 7 or 8 items, and still stand by my assertion that the benefit of over 200 years of Chassidus disproves some of those (especially casting some of them on this generation). A recommended read to put things into context is: http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=23647&st=&pgnum=101&hilite= especially sections ב and ד as they relate to the specifics of the חרם.
keep in mind that you can only see now how things turned out with the cherem. You do not know how things would have been without it. Did it temper chassidus? Did it keep it within boundaries?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #67 on: June 08, 2017, 04:00:09 PM »
keep in mind that you can only see now how things turned out with the cherem. You do not know how things would have been without it. Did it temper chassidus? Did it keep it within boundaries?
Huh?
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #68 on: June 08, 2017, 04:46:34 PM »
Speaking of rehashing, what do we think of the Rambam?
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Offline as2

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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #69 on: June 08, 2017, 05:34:36 PM »
Can we get back on topic here? Take this conversation to the halacha thread or something.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #70 on: June 08, 2017, 06:42:49 PM »
Can we get back on topic here? Take this conversation to the halacha thread or something.
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Offline yelped

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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #71 on: June 08, 2017, 06:47:56 PM »
Speaking of rehashing, what do we think of the Rambam?
:)

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2017, 08:47:17 AM »
Huh?
You are making the argument that the way chassidus turned out over 200 years shows that the cherem was misplaced. I am saying that maybe it is only because of the cherem that chassidus turned out the way it did. This would mean that the cherem was successful and was the CAUSE of the success of chassidus.
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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2017, 11:38:37 AM »
You said:

keep in mind that you can only see now how things turned out with the cherem. You do not know how things would have been without it. Did it temper chassidus? Did it keep it within boundaries?

To which I responded:
Huh?
That response translates as: "your response is befitting the title of this thread" (unless this is moved by mods to a thread with a different title).


But now that you have restated your comment saying:
You are making the argument that the way chassidus turned out over 200 years shows that the cherem was misplaced. I am saying that maybe it is only because of the cherem that chassidus turned out the way it did. This would mean that the cherem was successful and was the CAUSE of the success of chassidus.

I understand that you mean וכאשר יענו אותו כן ירבה וכן יפרוץ, but I think you are giving the cherem too much credit here. Chassidus stands on its own merit, and is what the aibershter gave עם ישראל at the time it was needed.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Re: Comments That Leave Me Speechless...
« Reply #74 on: June 09, 2017, 11:43:14 AM »
You are making the argument that the way chassidus turned out over 200 years shows that the cherem was misplaced. I am saying that maybe it is only because of the cherem that chassidus turned out the way it did. This would mean that the cherem was successful and was the CAUSE of the success of chassidus.
+1 The little known fact the founders of chassidus are the Bsht, Magid, then the Gra. That's why chassidus has penetrated every sect of Judaism today.
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