Origins Of Chassidus (The Good the Bad and the Ugly) And Is there A bad Jew?

[MC]

The response is golden!
http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/114711#comment-1312938

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Glad to see you pop in once every so often.

[MC]

Glad to see you pop in once every so often.

I never actually left. Just turned into a bit of a lurker.
Nice to have you "back" too.

[thaber]

I never actually left. Just turned into a bit of a lurker.
Nice to have you "back" too.

That was a terrific comment. Belongs in the hall of fame

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I never actually left. Just turned into a bit of a lurker.

I know. Tell LB don't be a stranger. 

[Dan]

That was a terrific comment. Belongs in the hall of fame

+1.
Time to start a DDMS comment HoF thread.

[MC]

That was a terrific comment. Belongs in the hall of fame

+1.
Time to start a DDMS comment HoF thread.

Haha, thanks.

I know. Tell LB don't be a stranger. 

Message relayed

[Lou Bob]

I know. Tell LB don't be a stranger. 

heyyyyyy 

[jj1000]

+1.
Time to start a DDMS comment HoF thread.

AKA a Wiki

[aygart]

Best of?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

heyyyyyy 

What's up?

[MeirS]

theres something called a mumar in my language whether you like it or not. Also there's no way in the world I'm ever learning chasidus. This being a classic example of twisting things the wrong way which end up contradicting chazal but hey it doesn't matter because it's chassidus

Just catching up and came across this. I do feel that this post is somewhat degrading a part of Torah that Gedolim bigger than me and you in previous generations endorsed and I wouldn't start up with such things but that's your choice.

I haven't read the article that ExGingi posted a link to nor have I noticed a response from you but I'll just leave you with a question.

Is a Mumar, a bad Jew or is he a good Jew, a son of G-D, a son of Avraham Yitzchok and Yaakov who has a holy Neshama who has unfortunately done bad things?

Just to set the record, Chassidus doesn't and can't contradict Chazal for a number of reasons, so if you seem to have come across such an instance, either you haven't understood the Chassidus or you haven't understood the Ma'amar Chazal.

[yelped]

Just catching up and came across this. I do feel that this post is somewhat degrading a part of Torah that Gedolim bigger than me and you in previous generations endorsed and I wouldn't start up with such things but that's your choice.

I haven't read the article that ExGingi posted a link to nor have I noticed a response from you but I'll just leave you with a question.

Is a Mumar, a bad Jew or is he a good Jew, a son of G-D, a son of Avraham Yitzchok and Yaakov who has a holy Neshama who has unfortunately done bad things?

Just to set the record, Chassidus doesn't and can't contradict Chazal for a number of reasons, so if you seem to have come across such an instance, either you haven't understood the Chassidus or you haven't understood the Ma'amar Chazal.

Thank you.

[aygart]

Just to set the record, Chassidus doesn't and can't contradict Chazal for a number of reasons, so if you seem to have come across such an instance, either you haven't understood the Chassidus or you haven't understood the Ma'amar Chazal.

No true Scotsman

[yelped]

No true Scotsman

Huh?

[MeirS]

No true Scotsman

The premise has to be true since Torah can't contradict Torah.

As for specific examples, I'm not going to go through the whole Chassidus and all Ma'amorei Chazal to iron out that which people conceive as discrepancies.
If there is something specific which you see as discrepancy, feel free to post it here (or maybe better in a dedicated thread) and I'm sure someone will able to explain.

[MeirS]

Huh?

I googled it

[aygart]

The premise has to be true since Torah can't contradict Torah.

"The premise has to be true because otherwise MY premise may be wrong"

I don't know enough background in chassidus to have a definitive opinion here but what you are saying is a logical fallacy.

[MeirS]

"The premise has to be true because otherwise MY premise may be wrong"

I don't know enough background in chassidus to have a definitive opinion here but what you are saying is a logical fallacy.

One question.

Is Chassidus part of Torah or is Chassidus not part of Torah?

Many people have a hard time facing this question head on, but let's be intellectuality honest.

[aygart]

One question.

Is Chassidus part of Torah or is Chassidus not part of Torah?

Many people have a hard time facing this question head on, but let's be intellectuality honest.

It is a fair assumption that it is a part, but he is obviously questioning that. Once there seems to be a contradiction between chassidus and the torah one of the possibilities is that it is not a part. I understand where you get your premise from but that does not require anyone to accept it without proof.