Author Topic: Solar panels  (Read 19608 times)

Offline yoohoo

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2018, 04:00:57 PM »
Recently bought a house with fully owned solar. 3k sf. Electric bill was $170 in July and August

Offline michael

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2018, 04:10:34 PM »
which company are you getting it from?

Getting from Powerlutions.

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2018, 03:50:39 PM »
We live in a crazy world, after Tesla won the War of the currents we get AC power in our supply, most of it gets converted to DC.

Now we are going a step further, solar panels produce DC we need power inverter to change it from DC to AC till it comes in your house and most of it gets transferred back to DC  ::)
and inverters represent the single largest hardware cost in any solar project.

Most of our devices run on DC converted from AC PC, Cell, Printer, cd player, Tell, LED (also has a wasteful converter from AC to DC), Oven uses gas and DC control board, most of your consumption by device/appliance runs on DC.
they should wire the house in DC and have some outlets on AC for the fridge/freezer wash/dryer etc,


Please correct me if I'm wrong, Thanks!
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Offline henche

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2018, 10:03:09 AM »
We live in a crazy world, after Tesla won the War of the currents we get AC power in our supply, most of it gets converted to DC.

Now we are going a step further, solar panels produce DC we need power inverter to change it from DC to AC till it comes in your house and most of it gets transferred back to DC  ::)
and inverters represent the single largest hardware cost in any solar project.

Most of our devices run on DC converted from AC PC, Cell, Printer, cd player, Tell, LED (also has a wasteful converter from AC to DC), Oven uses gas and DC control board, most of your consumption by device/appliance runs on DC.
they should wire the house in DC and have some outlets on AC for the fridge/freezer wash/dryer etc,


Please correct me if I'm wrong, Thanks!

I think you're correct. AC won because it does better over long distances, but if your power is coming only 20 feet from  your roof, it probably makes sense to keep it in DC.

Online ruru1000

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2018, 10:04:08 AM »
I gave a deposit for the Tesla roof about a year ago. Yesterday, I got a call from Tesla saying that my name is next on the list. They want to come to do an an analysis on the house to provide a quote.   I know there is the federal tax credit for 30% on the battery and solar shingles, but does anyone know of any additional incentives or resources (I live in NJ)?

Thanks!   

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2018, 10:21:19 AM »
I gave a deposit for the Tesla roof about a year ago. Yesterday, I got a call from Tesla saying that my name is next on the list. They want to come to do an an analysis on the house to provide a quote.   I know there is the federal tax credit for 30% on the battery and solar shingles, but does anyone know of any additional incentives or resources (I live in NJ)?

Thanks!   
Wow! I didn't realize they where doing public roofs already!
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Online aygart

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2018, 10:32:28 AM »
I gave a deposit for the Tesla roof about a year ago. Yesterday, I got a call from Tesla saying that my name is next on the list. They want to come to do an an analysis on the house to provide a quote.   I know there is the federal tax credit for 30% on the battery and solar shingles, but does anyone know of any additional incentives or resources (I live in NJ)?

Thanks!   
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Online cozmohoot

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2018, 12:04:37 PM »
Just got solar installed 2 weeks ago (waiting on inspection to be hooked in to grid/turned on). Seems like a no brainer in my area for a few reasons. I'm in a rowhouse with a flat roof in KGH. That means that even though the footprint of the house is really small, almost the entire roof is usable, and will produce fairly well because its flat. Add to that the fact that in NYC you get the up to 25% off NYS taxes and 5% for each of the first 4 years off NYC property tax bill - I can't see a good reason not to get solar.
Are you buying it or leasing? It seems most places want to lease and then bill you monthly.

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2018, 12:31:29 PM »
I think you're correct. AC won because it does better over long distances, but if your power is coming only 20 feet from  your roof, it probably makes sense to keep it in DC.
How much would solar cost without those inverters?
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Online ruru1000

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2018, 12:58:45 PM »
Wow! I didn't realize they where doing public roofs already!
Me either. They said install would likely happen in Summer of 2019, but would need to come out now and start the initial quote/review process.   I was hoping they were calling to tell me that since I'd be an early adapter it would be free :( or something like that.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2018, 01:06:24 PM »
Are you buying it or leasing? It seems most places want to lease and then bill you monthly.
Bought (with financing only because the rate was incredibly low). The company I went with never even brought up leasing. I also got quotes through pickmysolar.com. Most of the quotes had a cash option and a financing option. I don't remember whether they even offered lease.

Offline yesitsme

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Online cozmohoot

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2018, 01:58:10 PM »
Bought (with financing only because the rate was incredibly low). The company I went with never even brought up leasing. I also got quotes through pickmysolar.com. Most of the quotes had a cash option and a financing option. I don't remember whether they even offered lease.
Mind sharing who set you up with the service?

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2018, 03:10:52 PM »
Mind sharing who set you up with the service?
I'd prefer to wait till my system is live before posting anything about the company. Still waiting on NYC DOB inspection to get it turned on.

I can tell you what I got though. I ended up with 14 LG 350W panels, with Enphase IQ7 microinverters and monitoring system. I actually really liked the sound of the SunPower systems, but with a limited amount of space for the panel, I wanted to maximize wattage. For whatever reason, all the SunPower installers would only provide quotes with the lower wattage panels (even though I know they make at least a 360W panel). The lower total output, coupled with slightly higher cost, pushed me to choose the company I went with. There are other installers that would have done the same system - I'll get into that once I'm ready to post more about the company.

ETA: I'm curious to hear whether Sunpower has gained a pricing advantage out in the market now that they've gotten the tariff exemption.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 03:13:57 PM by skyguy918 »

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2018, 03:44:54 PM »
https://www.google.com/get/sunroof#p=0
This does a good job of showing areas that will produce more or less, but it seems like it's way off on the usable square footage. If I'm reading this right, it thinks I could only fit 3 standard panels on my roof, instead of the 14 I have installed. Interesting though to see the full map of my neighborhood, and how all the flat roofed rowhouses, which are oriented N/S (slightly tilted towards NW/SE), are good for solar, with the north facing houses being even more suited.

Online cozmohoot

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2019, 11:57:59 AM »
Following up..
Anything new to share?

I plan on speaking to someone to see if its worthwhile for me in NY.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2019, 01:24:44 PM »
Following up..
Anything new to share?

I plan on speaking to someone to see if its worthwhile for me in NY.
I wouldn't suggest the installer I used. Everything will likely work out for me in the end, but too many hassles, delays, etc.

I started looking into this in May of last year. Signed a contract with my installer around a month later. I won't go through all of the details of the timing, but the bottom line is that the system wasn't operational (ie producing electricity for me) until nearly December. And since then I've had a full week of the system being offline, and issues where they had to come out to adjust the monitoring hardware. They appear to have submitted the necessary paperwork for me to get my NYC property tax abatement, but I'm still waiting on approval.

Other than that, the system is fine - I'm pretty confident I won't see reoccurring issues with it going forward. As I mentioned before, the system is a total of 4.9 kW with microinverters and monitoring. The actual purchase cost was $18,530. That was broken up into a loan with 2 components, which is done through Sungage (my actual loan is with NBT bank):

1) An interest free loan of $10,191.50 (30%+25% of the system cost). This is the exact amount of my tax refund for 2018, and it's is due in June.
2) A 5 year loan on the remainder ($8,339.50) at 1.99% for a monthly payment of $146.36

My projected energy production at current electricity costs (~$.20) is an average of $90-95/month. Layer on 4 years of NYC property tax abatement ($1,000 per year) and I'm actually already making money even in the first five years. Obviously after that point the whole system is just generating profit.

I believe the federal tax credit goes of 30% goes down to 26% (2020), 22% (2021), and then sunsets entirely. I don't think NYS's expires, but it is capped at $5k. Perhaps more importantly though, the way your system is treated regarding net metering in NY changes for systems installed (or maybe contracted) after 2020 - for the worse. There's also an installer side incentive that may be getting lower, but that should be baked into the price you're quoted. Between the federal credit getting lower and the net metering issue, if you're going to do it, do it this year.

Depending on your system size and the pricing, it can still be worthwhile even outside NYC. But if you don't have a lot of maximum sun space it can make it a lot harder to become profitable. My father got quotes, and while his roof has many times the amount of space as mine, none of it had the levels of unobstructed solar exposure to make it worthwhile. Bottom line, you have to get the quotes and crunch the numbers.

Online cozmohoot

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2019, 09:40:43 PM »
I got quoted for 8 panels sunpower 370 2.96kw which will generate approximately 3700kwh per year.
20,100 -900 instant nyserda credit.
19k loan.
5700 federal credit tax return.
4800 NYS credit tax return.
3900 ny property tax abatement over 4 years.

Official cost after incentives is 4800.

Panels cover approx half my yearly usage so I will still have coned bill during summer months...

Thoughts?
Wonder if I can negotiate the price...

Interesting since the 3 quotes from pickmysolar said only 6 panels and this other company says 8.

Offline Dave321

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2019, 11:08:48 AM »
I got quoted for 8 panels sunpower 370 2.96kw which will generate approximately 3700kwh per year.
20,100 -900 instant nyserda credit.
19k loan.
5700 federal credit tax return.
4800 NYS credit tax return.
3900 ny property tax abatement over 4 years.

Official cost after incentives is 4800.

Panels cover approx half my yearly usage so I will still have coned bill during summer months...

Thoughts?
Wonder if I can negotiate the price...

Interesting since the 3 quotes from pickmysolar said only 6 panels and this other company says 8.

i think your getting ripped. I am getting 34 panels 390w each for 32k.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Solar panels
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2019, 11:10:52 AM »
I got quoted for 8 panels sunpower 370 2.96kw which will generate approximately 3700kwh per year.
20,100 -900 instant nyserda credit.
19k loan.
5700 federal credit tax return.
4800 NYS credit tax return.
3900 ny property tax abatement over 4 years.

Official cost after incentives is 4800.

Panels cover approx half my yearly usage so I will still have coned bill during summer months...

Thoughts?
Wonder if I can negotiate the price...

Interesting since the 3 quotes from pickmysolar said only 6 panels and this other company says 8.
The company I went with initially quoted me 20 panels. After PickMySolar only offered 12 or 13, I went back and asked how 20 would fit. They sent their engineer (before signing any deal), he went up on the roof and decided he could fit 14. Based on that, I eventually got PickMySolar to procure quotes for 14 as well. You may not know for sure until someone goes up on your roof, but 6-8 is not a huge range and I doubt the math changes too much if you have to go smaller.

I did like Sunpower's pitch. My system has basically the same warranties, monitoring, etc. but Sunpower seems to have it all very streamlined - my company essentially subcontracted out most of the work, while I believe Sunpower has to be all in-house. If your specific installer closes, you're still covered by any other Sunpower installer. I believe they all give a first year production guarantee (I guess they cut you a check if it doesn't hit the mark), which I don't have. The main reasons I didn't go with them were cost (their best offer ended up being $18,542 for 14x327W vs $18,570 for 14x350) and the fact that none of them offered me higher output panels like you're getting (still not sure why they wouldn't use anything with higher output than the 327W).

I typed out a whole megilla analyzing your numbers, but decided that wasn't necessary. Bottom line, in comparison to what I got it doesn't seem like a great deal, but if that's the best that's out there, it definitely seems worth doing. Your breakeven (accounting for all incentives and ignoring their timing) at current electricity costs and no assumed cost inflation is still just 6.5 years, which is pretty quick and leaves plenty of life in the panels to make a profit over the longer term. Hopefully using a more established player like Sunpower will produce a much smoother installation and maintenance experience.