Author Topic: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights  (Read 10406 times)

Offline imayid2

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #220 on: November 13, 2024, 07:30:55 PM »
This is all chareidi EC perusihim on what happened.
The Kastner saga was a Chareidy EC?

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #221 on: November 13, 2024, 07:33:31 PM »
Can I also get one?

A lot to unpack there, we were mainly discussing snippets from pages 7-11 roughly. (really just glimpsed so far)

https://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%203231.pdf

Offline MoYS

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #222 on: November 13, 2024, 11:41:31 PM »
Skimmed through the last couple of pages. Maybe I missed it but I ddin't see any mention of the book The Transfer Agreement. A lot of detailed information there.

(Also prefidy but I'm sure most people here have read it, or know what he says)

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #223 on: November 14, 2024, 02:39:20 AM »
Skimmed through the last couple of pages. Maybe I missed it but I ddin't see any mention of the book The Transfer Agreement. A lot of detailed information there.

(Also prefidy but I'm sure most people here have read it, or know what he says)
Min HaMeitzar by R' M.D. Weismandle is also a good read. In Hebrew.

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #224 on: November 14, 2024, 04:47:20 AM »
The Kastner saga was a Chareidy EC?
The Kastner affair is not the slam-dunk home run you are making it out to be.
It is hotly debated to this day what his motivations were, why he did or did not do certain things... And if he would have done things differently how much of a difference it would have made.
His conviction (the one perfidy is written about) was overturned on appeal.
(Also prefidy but I'm sure most people here have read it, or know what he says)
Perfidy is also ahistorical, was written with political motivations...
Some major Churban scholars disagree with basic facts in it.

It's very easy to cherry-pick the MM that you want to prove an anti Zionist stand. Maybe I'm channeling @CountValentine here, but it's important to get out of the EC of the history you were indoctrinated with and see how much holds up when you consider alternative narratives.

If you want to claim, and provide historical support for, the idea that the boycott was SO damaging to the german economy that the Nazi Govt would have fallen... and the Labor Zionists transfer agreement that broke the boycott caused the continuation of the Nazi regime and ultimately the holocaust... maybe I can get on board with that. But that would also mean that the German Rabbanim who were against the boycott were also wrong, and the Revisionist Zionists (and Polish Rabbanim) who were in favor of the boycott were right.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2024, 05:35:15 AM by yfr bachur »

Offline imayid2

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #225 on: November 14, 2024, 09:43:17 AM »
The Kastner affair is not the slam-dunk home run you are making it out to be.
It is hotly debated to this day what his motivations were, why he did or did not do certain things... And if he would have done things differently how much of a difference it would have made.
His conviction (the one perfidy is written about) was overturned on appeal.Perfidy is also ahistorical, was written with political motivations...
Some major Churban scholars disagree with basic facts in it.

It's very easy to cherry-pick the MM that you want to prove an anti Zionist stand. Maybe I'm channeling @CountValentine here, but it's important to get out of the EC of the history you were indoctrinated with and see how much holds up when you consider alternative narratives.
No one dunked.

Not really following how this is all “EC”. The real story is always more complicated.

Offline MHP

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #226 on: November 14, 2024, 04:16:46 PM »
Week 2 is unfolding now in Paris

Hundreds of Hamas supporters have gathered outside the Stade de France in Paris

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #227 on: November 14, 2024, 08:36:50 PM »
Are these protesters/rioters/pogromichkes mostly ME immigrants or native woke crazies ?

Offline AsherO

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #228 on: November 14, 2024, 08:41:57 PM »
Are these protesters/rioters/pogromichkes mostly ME immigrants or native woke crazies ?

They’re mostly of North African origin, but many are European born.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline LongTimeLurker

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #229 on: November 15, 2024, 07:10:05 AM »
Correct+
every Avreich who buys a house is paying 100's of thousands in taxes.
every Avreich who's wife works (90-95% of Avreichim) is paying 500-5000 shekel a month taxes (depending on income)
every Avreich who has a side job is paying taxes on that as well

New research on how avreichim and haredim can afford to live

The tldr;
- lots of unaudited gemachim e mostly funded by chutz laaretz
- benefits tailor made for them
- the overall rise in real estate prices allows parents to mortgage their houses or sell them to help their kids

Basically it's somewhat of a Ponzi scheme imo

https://www.calcalist.co.il/magazine/article/by00a6jjfyl
https://jerusaleminstitute.org.il/publications/the-miraclel-of-the-ultraorthdox-household/

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #230 on: November 15, 2024, 07:40:41 AM »
New research on how avreichim and haredim can afford to live

The tldr;
- lots of unaudited gemachim e mostly funded by chutz laaretz
- benefits tailor made for them
- the overall rise in real estate prices allows parents to mortgage their houses or sell them to help their kids

Basically it's somewhat of a Ponzi scheme imo

https://www.calcalist.co.il/magazine/article/by00a6jjfyl
https://jerusaleminstitute.org.il/publications/the-miraclel-of-the-ultraorthdox-household/
Not really the correct thread but ill bite.

"- lots of unaudited gemachim e mostly funded by chutz laaretz" - Yeah... they just keep on borrowing and borrowing and borrowing and the gemachim just keep on giving and giving and giving  ;D ;D ;D
"- benefits tailor made for them"  ;D ;D ;D All 800 shekel of it!!!  ;D ;D ;D Do you know how much it costs to live??? And its a Chareidi family with 6-8 kids, not 1 and a dog.
- the overall rise in real estate prices allows parents to mortgage their houses or sell them to help their kids"  :o :o :o So Mom and Pop sell their Dira that they bought for 1 million 30 years ago for 4 million, and BOOM!!! They now can marry off and support 8 families for the rest of their lives!!! MAGIC!  :o :o :o yup... 3 million should buy 8 houses for 1.5 million each and allow enough left over for 5000 shekel of support monthly for 8 families for 30 years...  ??? ??? ???

Listen, if you want to believe all the unbelievably stupid propaganda about Chareidim go ahead. But don't parrot this garbage and make yourself look like an idiot. You deserve better.


Offline JMHO

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #231 on: November 15, 2024, 08:36:23 AM »
Not really the correct thread but ill bite.

"- lots of unaudited gemachim e mostly funded by chutz laaretz" - Yeah... they just keep on borrowing and borrowing and borrowing and the gemachim just keep on giving and giving and giving  ;D ;D ;D
"- benefits tailor made for them"  ;D ;D ;D All 800 shekel of it!!!  ;D ;D ;D Do you know how much it costs to live??? And its a Chareidi family with 6-8 kids, not 1 and a dog.
- the overall rise in real estate prices allows parents to mortgage their houses or sell them to help their kids"  :o :o :o So Mom and Pop sell their Dira that they bought for 1 million 30 years ago for 4 million, and BOOM!!! They now can marry off and support 8 families for the rest of their lives!!! MAGIC!  :o :o :o yup... 3 million should buy 8 houses for 1.5 million each and allow enough left over for 5000 shekel of support monthly for 8 families for 30 years...  ??? ??? ???

Listen, if you want to believe all the unbelievably stupid propaganda about Chareidim go ahead. But don't parrot this garbage and make yourself look like an idiot. You deserve better.
Did you mean  >:( >:( >:( or  ??? ??? ??? ?

Offline UKinNYS

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #232 on: November 15, 2024, 12:26:29 PM »

Offline aygart

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Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #234 on: November 15, 2024, 01:45:17 PM »

- lots of unaudited gemachim e mostly funded by chutz laaretz


The government should be happy that besides what they are schnoring from America, the charedim are capable of schnorring on their own too. No idea why you don't see that as a benefit for the govt.

Offline yelped

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Re: Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights
« Reply #235 on: November 15, 2024, 03:20:25 PM »
back to OP - Dutch govt may fall over this debacle:
https://www.politico.eu/article/crisis-builds-in-dutch-government-after-cabinet-member-resigns/
What a sham. If you tiptoe around the elephant in the room, it won't save your skin.