Hurricane Irma

[thaber]

5 dead in a Hollywood, FL nursing home due to no power/AC http://www.miamiherald.com/news/weather/hurricane/article173019111.html

and interestingly, all the people who said the guy who runs the nursing home in Harvey with people floating around should be taken out back, are all quiet.

[TimT]

and interestingly, all the people who said the guy who runs the nursing home in Harvey with people floating around should be taken out back, are all quiet.

I said

That if the people in charge can't handle the responsibilities that come along with caring for these people's lives then they shouldn't be in this business.

And I still stand by that. But I was told

You obviously have no clue in this parsha. Stop before you sound even more foolish.

So hey, what do I know.

[Sammy82]

and interestingly, all the people who said the guy who runs the nursing home in Harvey with people floating around should be taken out back, are all quiet.

I've actually been quite busy today and still on the office (I didn't even read about the story yet, just heard a few different versions of it on the radio in the car while driving to a few different meetings, which ironically enough, one was with OEM which is the central part of the city government arm here in NYC that takes control of ALL services and tells everybody what to do, where to go, etc).
Once again, I don't know the details but being that I was part of a similar disaster five years ago and actually operating a LTC facilty, I could actually see certain scenarios where the operator (or owner) has ZERO fault.
For example (and this is not a far fetch possibility at all)-
Maybe they had power up until the previous night and it was a relatively cool night. They hydrated the residents, opened windows (which BTW due we physically cant open windows more than 6-12"), made extra rounds, monitored often, and had a plan to either get the power back up in the morning or evacuate then. Maybe there was physically no way to evacuate them since millions of people were evacuating, roads were clogged, shelters were full, hotels were overbooked and they were TOLD by their respective government agencies to shelter-in-place? Moving 100+ elderly sick people is not the same as going on a camp trip where you could order 2 or 3 buses, pick up and go. They would need dozens of ambulettes/ambulances to transport, they would have to take all supplies, medications, equipment, and food with them (very little chance any place they go would have any of that, considering the mass evacuations of the general public and other facilities), medical charts also have to go, you need to make sure that you supply enough staff (and on average it takes 1 employees to care for 1 patient, which includes just aides and nurses) 24/7 around the clock, and more. If you really want to know more details and get to know what it takes, I might have a position for you (no kidding) but my point is that you have absolutely no clue.
So as I  said previously, I don't know 1)the facilities that we are discussing (location, demographics of residents, etc. which all make a huge difference) 2)how things are in regards to government and done in other states, but if the storm was anything like Sandy and things are run similar to how they are run here in NY (which BTW I believe that the NYC OEM is way ahead of similar agencies in other cities so I could just imagine how much more unorganized and chaotic it is over there), I could def see it being made for what its not by people who have no clue.

[Sammy82]

I saidAnd I still stand by that. But I was toldSo hey, what do I know.

And I stand by what I said (see above post)! So we're even!
The difference is that I'm in the trenches and know what it takes while ur sitting on the sidelines spewing garbage, which might sound good and tough (hence that's why the media and certain government officials jump to conclusions and say the same nieyrishkite like you) but it's not reality. My offer still stands. If this seriously interests you and you want to see if this might be a future for you, I might have an internship available. (For all I know, you're a 70 year old retired guy! But even then I would take you. This way if you do ever come to a facility such as mine, you'll appreciate it that much more instead of being one of those  grumpy old men that always complain and think they could do things better!)

[A3]

Zero Traffic on the way back into Miami... All good here

[jj1000]

I've actually been quite busy today and still on the office (I didn't even read about the story yet, just heard a few different versions of it on the radio in the car while driving to a few different meetings, which ironically enough, one was with OEM which is the central part of the city government arm here in NYC that takes control of ALL services and tells everybody what to do, where to go, etc).
Once again, I don't know the details but being that I was part of a similar disaster five years ago and actually operating a LTC facilty, I could actually see certain scenarios where the operator (or owner) has ZERO fault.
For example (and this is not a far fetch possibility at all)-
Maybe they had power up until the previous night and it was a relatively cool night. They hydrated the residents, opened windows (which BTW due we physically cant open windows more than 6-12"), made extra rounds, monitored often, and had a plan to either get the power back up in the morning or evacuate then. Maybe there was physically no way to evacuate them since millions of people were evacuating, roads were clogged, shelters were full, hotels were overbooked and they were TOLD by their respective government agencies to shelter-in-place? Moving 100+ elderly sick people is not the same as going on a camp trip where you could order 2 or 3 buses, pick up and go. They would need dozens of ambulettes/ambulances to transport, they would have to take all supplies, medications, equipment, and food with them (very little chance any place they go would have any of that, considering the mass evacuations of the general public and other facilities), medical charts also have to go, you need to make sure that you supply enough staff (and on average it takes 1 employees to care for 1 patient, which includes just aides and nurses) 24/7 around the clock, and more. If you really want to know more details and get to know what it takes, I might have a position for you (no kidding) but my point is that you have absolutely no clue.
So as I  said previously, I don't know 1)the facilities that we are discussing (location, demographics of residents, etc. which all make a huge difference) 2)how things are in regards to government and done in other states, but if the storm was anything like Sandy and things are run similar to how they are run here in NY (which BTW I believe that the NYC OEM is way ahead of similar agencies in other cities so I could just imagine how much more unorganized and chaotic it is over there), I could def see it being made for what its not by people who have no clue.

Or more likely there was negligence, they were understaffed, nurses messed up their vital checks, they didn't stock up enough water and non-perishable food in advance, and they will be sued and settle for many millions.

A hard job isn't an excuse for death. This has huge settlement written all over it.

[jj1000]

Zero Traffic on the way back into Miami... All good here

Are people just not going back yet?

[Sammy82]

Or more likely there was negligence, they were understaffed, nurses messed up their vital checks, they didn't stock up enough water and non-perishable food in advance, and they will be sued and settle for many millions.

A hard job isn't an excuse for death. This has huge settlement written all over it.

Def a possibility and the investigations will determine that. And if there was negligence, the responsible parties should be held accountable to the fullest extent allowed. My point is that until all facts are known, I would reserve judgement since as somebody who's been there done that to a degree (BH I never had situations like this), I could definitely see variables which would make the provider completely innocent.

[aygart]

The case in Florida definitely sounds more negligent than Houston. In Houston there was flooding and not much to do about it other than evacuate which has its own issues. Dehydration is solvable.

[jj1000]

The case in Florida definitely sounds more negligent than Houston. In Houston there was flooding and not much to do about it other than evacuate which has its own issues. Dehydration is solvable.

This. It's hard to imagine a situation where they will have an excuse for not providing water often enough.

[Sammy82]

Driving but I'll read and respond when I'm able to

[aygart]

This. It's hard to imagine a situation where they will have an excuse for not providing water often enough.

Availability of water and staff could have become an issue but this is not comparable to Houston.

[A3]

Are people just not going back yet?

Maybe alot of people are waiting till after the weekend? No school til Mon anyways... Forced Vacation.

What took 23 hours from MIA to MEM took 15 hours from MEM to MIA.

[elit]

Maybe alot of people are waiting till after the weekend? No school til Mon anyways... Forced Vacation.

What took 23 hours from MIA to MEM took 15 hours from MEM to MIA.

my siblings had a ton of traffic yesterday coming back

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Def a possibility and the investigations will determine that. And if there was negligence, the responsible parties should be held accountable to the fullest extent allowed. My point is that until all facts are known, I would reserve judgement since as somebody who's been there done that to a degree (BH I never had situations like this), I could definitely see variables which would make the provider completely innocent.

Coming from somebody who has been to several nursing homes (more than 10) and more important coming from someone whos mother died in one I can say you are living in fantasyland!!!

[jj1000]

Coming from somebody who has been to several nursing homes (more than 10) and more important coming from someone whos mother died in one I can say you are living in fantasyland!!!

[TimT]

Sammyboy, stop telling me what I do & don't know. A little FYI, for a number of years I volunteered at a few such places & spent several hours a day 7 days a week there. And I wasn't in an office, I spent my time in the rooms with the patients. There was neglect and even abuse on a regular basis. Many of the employees were devoted to 1 thing only, their phones. Perhaps your place is elite in nursing care. One of the things I realized was that some of

those  grumpy old men that always complain

were unfortunately very very justified in doing so.

[Sammy82]

The case in Florida definitely sounds more negligent than Houston. In Houston there was flooding and not much to do about it other than evacuate which has its own issues. Dehydration is solvable.

+.5
Dehydration is def more solvable but there are still some barriers (for example staffing is needed for many/most patients to get hydration, potable water has to be available, which my understanding was meet limited, even with the mandatory emergency background supply) but i do basically agree with you that on the surface FL looks much worse than Houston (although the fact that people died def add to the jerk reaction effect).

[Sammy82]

Coming from somebody who has been to several nursing homes (more than 10) and more important coming from someone whos mother died in one I can say you are living in fantasyland!!!

1) I'm sorry to hear that ur loved one died (was it due to negligence or because of old age/sickness?)
2)Please specify what part is fantasy.

[aygart]

+.5
Dehydration is def more solvable but there are still some barriers (for example staffing is needed for many/most patients to get hydration, potable water has to be available, which my understanding was meet limited, even with the mandatory emergency background supply) but i do basically agree with you that on the surface FL looks much worse than Houston (although the fact that people died def add to the jerk reaction effect).

Something like this.

Availability of water and staff could have become an issue but this is not comparable to Houston.