Author Topic: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?  (Read 3730 times)

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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2017, 08:37:56 AM »
I'm a consumer and I chose my kids school. It's a fantastic school that fosters educational growth, a quality Torah education and a warm environment. It's hard to pay for but it's worth every penny. If I didn't think it was worth it, I would find another solution.

Many people feel trapped in the local school, but the truth is that there are options. Even if there is only one school in town,you can homeschool, move, hire a tutor, send to public school or commute. I'm sure there are other options people can think about.

The cost of tuition is the largest burden for most people I know. At least make sure that you are getting good value.
Let's be real here, most of these are not viable options for 90%+ people.
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Offline saw50st8

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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2017, 08:41:39 AM »
Let's be real here, most of these are not viable options for 90%+ people.

Eh, they are more real than people give them credit for. They might be hard. They might require moving more than 4 blocks from where you grew up. Just because you don't like your choices in life, doesn't mean that you don't have them. I actually know people who made hard choices and did homeschool or move or hire a tutor or send to public school or have their kids commute (or the parents).

There are also very few cities where choices don't exist. Maybe in Postville.




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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2017, 08:50:10 AM »
Eh, they are more real than people give them credit for. They might be hard. They might require moving more than 4 blocks from where you grew up. Just because you don't like your choices in life, doesn't mean that you don't have them. I actually know people who made hard choices and did homeschool or move or hire a tutor or send to public school or have their kids commute (or the parents).

There are also very few cities where choices don't exist. Maybe in Postville.
Not everyone has the luxury of moving somewhere just for the school, many people live where they have a good job. It's also very hard to homeschool if both parents work and isn't necessarily the right thing for many kids. I'm not saying that these aren't options for anyone to consider but none for them do anything to help the cause of the problem.
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Offline saw50st8

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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2017, 08:56:39 AM »
Not everyone has the luxury of moving somewhere just for the school, many people live where they have a good job. It's also very hard to homeschool if both parents work and isn't necessarily the right thing for many kids. I'm not saying that these aren't options for anyone to consider but none for them do anything to help the cause of the problem.

I agree that the cost is a huge issue. I also agree that those options aren't always viable for everyone. But if you reread the OP, he's complaining that people feel like they are enslaved by the institution they chose. 

As to the cost of education - the only way to really reduce the cost is to have large endowments or have a broader pool of people supporting the cause. At the end of the day quality teachers cost money. Where I live, the teachers are adequately paid and provide an exceptional education.  The teachers are educated and devoted. That costs money and someone has to pay for it.  The school my kids attend is 40% cheaper than the other local options but it's still a lot of money, especially if you have multiple kids.

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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2017, 09:00:01 AM »
I'm a consumer and I chose my kids school. It's a fantastic school that fosters educational growth, a quality Torah education and a warm environment. It's hard to pay for but it's worth every penny. If I didn't think it was worth it, I would find another solution.

Many people feel trapped in the local school, but the truth is that there are options. Even if there is only one school in town, you can homeschool, move, hire a tutor, send to public school or commute. I'm sure there are other options people can think about.

The cost of tuition is the largest burden for most people I know. At least make sure that you are getting good value.

And that is exactly where the priorities are -- how we determine the "value of education". If that is held above nice cars, restaurant meals, and Pesach vacations, then it's a top priority. for the author of the "$40K jew" article, quality Jewish day school education may be a different value.
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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2017, 09:07:28 AM »
And that is exactly where the priorities are -- how we determine the "value of education". If that is held above nice cars, restaurant meals, and Pesach vacations, then it's a top priority. for the author of the "$40K jew" article, quality Jewish day school education may be a different value.
There are many people not driving nice cars, eating at restaurants, and going to hotels for pesach who still can't afford their tuition....
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Offline michael.klatsky1

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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2017, 09:34:34 AM »
Not sure I follow.

Are you trying to say that all the rest is optional stuff? Seems like employee comp is part of the cost.  And textbooks. You may think public schools overpay, but it definitely gotta into the comparison
When is the last time a Jewish school offered valuable employee benefits, or paid for textbooks, lunch or buses? (They don't offer or pay for these). The former isn't offered and the latter is bundled into the state cost per pupil, under subcategory "pupil support services". Yeshiva's don't pay for either of those categories that make up the NY state cost of instruction. 

Offline michael.klatsky1

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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2017, 09:37:09 AM »
Therefore, most Jewish day schools that provide the dual "Hebrew/Judaic" and "General Studies" curriculum would require at least an additional 60% in funding to cover these additional costs.

Since Jewish schools usually only offer the bare minimum, I would say not. Public schools offer a much wider variety of classes, with the extra subjects, hands on classes, and extracurriculars.

Offline henche

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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #53 on: September 20, 2017, 09:47:37 AM »
When is the last time a Jewish school offered valuable employee benefits, or paid for textbooks, lunch or buses? (They don't offer or pay for these). The former isn't offered and the latter is bundled into the state cost per pupil, under subcategory "pupil support services". Yeshiva's don't pay for either of those categories that make up the NY state cost of instruction.

I'm just not following your point. 

Offline michael.klatsky1

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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2017, 09:49:54 AM »
I'm just not following your point.
1. Yeshivas don't offer pensions to their teachers the way public schools do, so that cost isn't there.
2. The $1000 or so NY spends on student support services is given to private schools as well, another cost not borne by the yeshiva.

Therefore the number you should be comparing with is $8700, the cost of instruction in NY. 

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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2017, 09:49:59 AM »
There's no comparison between how public school budgets are allocated and how private schools can choose to allocate their funding, I'm not sure why that's even part of the discussion here.
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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2017, 10:04:26 AM »
There are many people not driving nice cars, eating at restaurants, and going to hotels for pesach who still can't afford their tuition....
Yes, but if more of those who are would pay their tuition then the schools would be in much better shape.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2017, 10:06:00 AM »
There's no comparison between how public school budgets are allocated and how private schools can choose to allocate their funding, I'm not sure why that's even part of the discussion here.

It was the 2nd post on the costs between the two. Also, isn't the private sector supposed to be able to get things done more cheaply?

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are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2017, 10:12:48 AM »
It was the 2nd post on the costs between the two. Also, isn't the private sector supposed to be able to get things done more cheaply?
Yes, the only reason tuition is as high as it is, is to have those paying full tuition covering those who can't. There's no way it costs anywhere near $20k a year per child in a frum school.
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Re: are parents enslaved to yeshiva?
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2017, 10:17:02 AM »
Yes, the only reason tuition is as high as it is, is to have those paying full tuition covering those who can't. There's no way it costs anywhere near $20k a year per child in a frum school.

correct. In most cities, if every single student paid $12-$14K/yr then all educational costs would be covered. Even a $25-$30K cap per family would do well (if 100% of families would be involved) to encourage multiple students per family to attend and not increase pressure on large, Jewish families.
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