Opiod addictions

[ChaimMoskowitz]

But y do ppl take them if they don't make u high?

PAIN PAIN PAIN!!!

[hvaces42]

My point was that people have to understand that they can't understand instead of thinking that they can relate to what the addict is going through and what it takes to break out of the pattern of addiction.There are other options besides for 12 step programs that are a lot more effective for a much larger percentage of people and you're right, rehab isn't always the best option but sometimes it can be the only option at the time to save someones life although there has to be some form of continued therapy after the patient comes out.

Im all ears...please tell me about other options. Rehab to save life is good. Follow up therapy can be a combination of outpatient or private therapy combined with meetings. And again, unless you can show me that 12 steps work less than privat therapy or outpatient therapy or some other option you claim is out there im sticking to 12 steps works.

Step 2 and 3 require one to admit that they dont have all the answers and to turn thier will and lives over to a higher power. If someone makes a decision on their own that its not working for them then they arent following 12 steps. So of course it wont work.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

We need to change the mindset. Some of these individuals can be cured.

[mmgfarb]

Im all ears...please tell me about other options. Rehab to save life is good. Follow up therapy can be a combination of outpatient or private therapy combined with meetings. And again, unless you can show me that 12 steps work less than privat therapy or outpatient therapy or some other option you claim is out there im sticking to 12 steps works.

Step 2 and 3 require one to admit that they dont have all the answers and to turn thier will and lives over to a higher power. If someone makes a decision on their own that its not working for them then they arent following 12 steps. So of course it wont work.

There are things like Suboxone/Subutex and Vivitrol that have very high success rates. Things like that do have their own problems, nothings perfect, but they save many lives and have very low relapse rates.

[mmgfarb]

We need to change the mindset. Many, if not all, of these individuals can be cured.

FTFY and you're right, the general mindset regarding addiction definitely has to change.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

FTFY

By cured I mean drinking/gambling and many other addictions can be done on a social level after kicking the habit.

[hvaces42]

By cured I mean drinking/gambling and many other addictions can be done on a social level after kicking the habit.

For most, not. Some may be cured. I dont subscribe to the theory that no one can be cured. But for most the temptation to comtinue the addiction is too great.

[hvaces42]

There are things like Suboxone/Subutex and Vivitrol that have very high success rates. Things like that do have their own problems, nothings perfect, but they save many lives and have very low relapse rates.

That is for one addiction, maybe. You are talking about NA only

[henche]

PAIN PAIN PAIN!!!

Banana?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

For most, not. Some may be cured. I dont subscribe to the theory that no one can be cured. But for most the temptation to comtinue the addiction is too great.

Many of these addictions are when they are young, stupid and foolish. I have many friends and a family member leading normal lives after they kicked the addiction. We need to change the mindset that can never have a drink (or whatever the addiction is) again. I agree for most this is not an option. We need to figure out what group they belong to.

[yitrap]

Drop outs and relapses are choices people make. Relapse rate for rehab is way higher. 12 steps always work for people that work the 12 steps and stay in meetings. They seldom work for people that dont go to meetings and dont follow the 12 steps (there are always exceptions, but as a rule...).

You can say the same for this

For most, not. Some may be cured. I dont subscribe to the theory that no one can be cured. But for most the temptation to comtinue the addiction is too great.

And vice versa.

[chevron]

I used to drink a bottle of wine a day. while there's a lot of room to argue I was an addict, I simply loved wine and to a lesser extent getting buzzed. My justification was that despite constant offers by doctors for pain meds, I refused, I chose wine over meds.

Addictions all very by person or what it is, I quit smoking after 7 years a pack a day and still 10 years later I have dreams about getting addicted again. Have not touched a cigarette in 10 years.

I used to be a crazy crazy coffee addict and slowly cut that down, now I drink tea in the morning.

With wine, I made a choice with guidance, I cut my drinking to half a bottle a day, if I could not keep that, I vowed to go to aa and give up wine.. And since I love wine, I've been able to stick to my rules.

But you do get high from opioids..

[mmgfarb]

I used to drink a bottle of wine a day. while there's a lot of room to argue I was an addict, I simply loved wine and to a lesser extent getting buzzed. My justification was that despite constant offers by doctors for pain meds, I refused, I chose wine over meds.

Addictions all very by person or what it is, I quit smoking after 7 years a pack a day and still 10 years later I have dreams about getting addicted again. Have not touched a cigarette in 10 years.

I used to be a crazy crazy coffee addict and slowly cut that down, now I drink tea in the morning.

With wine, I made a choice with guidance, I cut my drinking to half a bottle a day, if I could not keep that, I vowed to go to aa and give up wine.. And since I love wine, I've been able to stick to my rules.

But you do get high from opioids..

There is a big difference between what you did and what opioid addicts have to go through to get clean....

[chevron]

The pain for some is unbearable. Where did you hear you recover faster?

23 surgeries.. Opiods cause nausea and vomiting and the body is not recovering properly.. Also I have about 25 doctor friends who mostly agree with me..

But then they urge me to lay off the sauce;)

[yuneeq]

Step 2 and 3 require one to admit that they dont have all the answers and to turn thier will and lives over to a higher power. If someone makes a decision on their own that its not working for them then they arent following 12 steps. So of course it wont work.

Sounds like a good example of the No True Scotsman fallacy

[hvaces42]

Many of these addictions are when they are young, stupid and foolish. I have many friends and a family member leading normal lives after they kicked the addiction. We need to change the mindset that can never have a drink (or whatever the addiction is) again. I agree for most this is not an option. We need to figure out what group they belong to.

Today's young foolish and stupid kids, dont get to be older unfortunately. They succumb to the addiction and its over too early in life for them to figure out whether they can have one drink or gamble socially or smoke a little weed.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

23 surgeries.. Opiods cause nausea and vomiting and the body is not recovering properly.. Also I have about 25 doctor friends who mostly agree with me..

Lot of recovery has to do with physical therapy. With out pain killers it is hard to start PT right away.

[hvaces42]

Sounds like a good example of the No True Scotsman fallacy

Another good excuse to avoid a program that works. I dont even want to guess how you come to that, but ok. My position on anyone that questions 12 steps and says "it didnt work for me" or "it doesnt work" is very clear. First, you need to show me what exactly didnt work for you or doesnt work. Second, you need to show me that you truly tried it. 90 days of trying it for real. Not half-assed showing up at meeting an hour in and playing on your phone and not getting involved.

I've been around hundereds of addicts who have been to 12 step meetings, rehab, private therapy you name it. Those that stick to whatever it is that works for them, dont relapse. Those that dilly dally and do whatever is convenient for them usually dont last long.

12 step programs are a good set of guidlelines to live a good clean life. Its not the only way. But for those who follow the 12 steps they do recover and the risk of relapse is greatly diminished.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Another good excuse to avoid a program that works. I dont even want to guess how you come to that, but ok. My position on anyone that questions 12 steps and says "it didnt work for me" or "it doesnt work" is very clear. First, you need to show me what exactly didnt work for you or doesnt work. Second, you need to show me that you truly tried it. 90 days of trying it for real. Not half-assed showing up at meeting an hour in and playing on your phone and not getting involved.

I've been around hundereds of addicts who have been to 12 step meetings, rehab, private therapy you name it. Those that stick to whatever it is that works for them, dont relapse. Those that dilly dally and do whatever is convenient for them usually dont last long.

12 step programs are a good set of guidlelines to live a good clean life. Its not the only way. But for those who follow the 12 steps they do recover and the risk of relapse is greatly diminished.

Many have done these programs and have stayed clean for years. Then all of a sudden they are back at square one. I wouldn't say it was because they didn't try.

[hvaces42]

Many have done these programs and have stayed clean for years. Then all of a sudden they are back at square one. I wouldn't say it was because they didn't try.

How? You dont get back to square one without losing faith in getting the help you need through the 12 steps.

Dont test or tempt yourself, dont go in or near establishments that [fill in the addiction]. Dont associate with people who [fill in the addiction]. I know people who were clean 30+ years in program and went back out there. Does that mean it doesnt work? Does the person who goes to one meeting and stops forever without ever going back, mean that it does work? Obviously the answer is no.

That person who went back after a long time was obviously not doing something right or hadnt really surrendered. I tell people all the time, if you feel you still need to act out in your addiction after you come to program, do it, get it out of your system and be ENTIRELY ready to stop. Otherwise, the pain of stopping vs the pain of acting out fight each other until one is too great and wins.