Spain Master Thread

[SamKey]

Spain to GIB is much faster than GIB to Spain IIRC and it all depends on the day and time of day

[Menachem613]

Thanks.  How long ago? Time of day?

Friday in July.

[Hershelsdeals]

Friday in July.

Thanks. I'm reading that Gibraltar to Spain takes much longer, looking for more info about that

[SamKey]

Thanks. I'm reading that Gibraltar to Spain takes much longer, looking for more info about that

By car is more of an issue than by foot. We left motzei Shabbos by car and there were no lines

[sruly101]

Does anyone know whats about the weather in GIB in January ?? Officially it should be warm (warmer then NY ) Does this mean that it is nice sunny days or not at all?

[sruly101]

Is there anyone on this forum living in GIB? pls PM me.

TIA

[Chapshnell]

Looking into a trip to Tenerife. (TFS) Seems to be a nice Sheraton for only 10,000 points there.

Couple of questions:

1) Can I bring along kosher food from NY into this Island?
2) If I can only leave 7:06pm from Brooklyn, NY 11218 to JFK & SQ A380 leaves 8:25pm do you think I can make it without luggage?
3) If yes how do I print boarding passes right by the zman as the check in counter will never give me one that late.
4) I have TSA Precheck if it matters.

[Yehoshua]

Wow that was a long thread to read. I'm just at the beginning stages of planning a trip that starts and ends in MAD. We don't plan on spending the entire 2 weeks in Spain though. Based on the whole thing here are my questions/summaries (I know I'm asking a lot in one post, but the first 4 are just agree/disagree so don't shoot me):

We'd arrive in MAD Monday night. It seems that spending Tuesday in MAD is enough if you skip Toledo (per @Yehuda). It would also seem like the restaurant there is okay according to many but not chabad. (1) Agree or disagree?

If we take a late flight out of MAD (say after 7pm) to BCN we could spend Wednesday there. We can skip the rooftop Guadí thing and the paid part of Park Guell and still get a nice feeling of the city. If we wanted to take the Jewish tour (which seems worth it) and see the sites we'd need another day. Leaving BCN in the evening at around 7pm again would still be enough time. (2) Agree or disagree?

We were thinking of visiting Seville next on Thursday. There seem to be things to see there though not necessarily lots Jewish history. We'd spend Thursday night there also and drive to GIB early Friday. There's no kosher food in SVQ. (3) Agree or disagree?

Parking/driving in GIB is extremely difficult and not recommended. We'd spend Friday afternoon through Sunday evening in GIB, with Sunday being 17 Tammuz. The community a really nice place to spend shabbos and the Rock hike is awesome if you don't take a restricted path. (4) Agree or disagree?

We would like to go to either CDG or LHR next. Flights from GIB only go to LHR, LGW, or LTN and are all in the evening (5pm-10pm). If we want to go to LON, (5) What would we be able to do in GIB on a fast day?

If we go to CDG next, we'd have to fly from AGP or SVQ. (6) Is it easier to fly to LON and spend the whole day Sunday fasting in GIB or leave earlier and fly to CDG?

Last one: If we rent a car in SVQ it's a lot cheaper to drop it off in Spain than in GIB. (7) What's the best option with the car? Keep it over shabbos in GIB and drive it to AGP or back to SVQ on Sunday? Something else?

TIA

[@Yehuda]

1. Agree, although I don't know that "many" say the restaurant is good. The Rabbi of the regular Shul says it's good (it's under his supervision).

2. Agree, although I realize that you probably could do the Jewish tour first thing in the morning and then still have time to see Park Guell before heading to the airport.

3. I realize it's silly to just keep saying 'agree' and then adding in a point, so I'll just add in my point: there is a Jewish tour, but he's expensive and wouldn't offer a student discount (which means definitely expensive for you). Make sure to leave early Friday in order to have time in GIB for an activity.

4. Agreed that it's hard to drive/park and you'll be less stressed without a car (you definitely don't need one to move around GIB) but public transportation from SVQ may be annoying. I don't know about the Rock , but it sure seems like it's awesome.

5. Don't know other than just walking around, but there's isn't much to walk around. You could do the dolphin tour as that shouldn't be too physically demanding.

6. Since you'll have to go back to SVQ/AGP, then you'll be spending the morning in public transportation or driving a rental car back (which means you decided to rent a car). By the time you land in CDG, it'll be the afternoon. Not sure how much better the busy travel day will be than just chilling in GIB till the LON flights.

7. Can't really help you make the car rental decision other than saying it's doable, but a bit tough/stressful. If public transportation is crazy long, then it really could be worth dealing with driving. Drive RT if you decide to go to CDG. If you decide to go to LON, then drive one way and find a company (I don't know any) where you can return the car near the border and then taxi/bus over the border.

Good night

[Yehoshua]

Wow, thanks for your response. A OW rental from SVQ to La Linea is $71 man ($269 auto) for the few hours it takes to drive (it's $205 man/$298 auto to GIB), a OW from SVQ to AGP Fri-Sun is $38/day man ($53 auto) and a if I rent and return in SVQ it's $16/day man ($33 auto). Public transportation is long and expensive both from SVQ to GIB and GIB to AGP.

If there's not much besides the dolphins to do in GIB it might be worth it to fly to CDG or ORY from AGP and park the car in GIB over shabbos. Is street parking available there? If yes, it it like saying there's street parking near Times Square: there, but almost never available? That way we can spend a little longer in Paris and spend the next shabbos in London.

[Yehoshua]

Anyone have an idea why MAD-BCN//BCN-SVQ is $69 a leg ($140 total) but MAD-BCN-SVQ is only $113?

[moish]

if you skip Toledo (per @Yehuda).

i dont know of anyone besides for @Yehuda that thinks its a good idea to skip toledo

Parking/driving in GIB is extremely difficult and not recommended.

im not sure where you got that info from, but i did not find that to be the case even when driving stick

[Mech]

Parking/driving in GIB is extremely difficult and not recommended.

im not sure where you got that info from, but i did not find that to be the case even when driving stick

The driving in Gibraltar is worse than Bais Yisroel

[@Yehuda]

i dont know of anyone besides for @Yehuda that thinks its a good idea to skip toledo

1 Shul is just a big open room w/ no sign of ever once being a Shul.
The other Shul was closed the day I went #1 because it was a Monday and #2 because it was under construction. Looks like you're going on a Tuesday, so assuming they finished construction by the time you go, it'll likely be open. I wouldn't even stop by the Santa Maria La Blanca Shul if I went again, so you'd be going just for the 1 Shul. I think it's one thing to see the Great Synagogue of Rome when you're eating a restaurant a block away, and another thing to spend 1/2 a day to go see a Shul and pay for train tickets, taxis within Toledo and the Shul entrance fees (albeit small). But hey, if you're really into seeing Shuls (which I normally enjoy, but again, we had a bad experience) then go for it!

im not sure where you got that info from, but i did not find that to be the case even when driving stick

As per Mech's finding, SamKey clearly thinks so. I did too. I'm up to GIB in my TR (yeah, where is that thing??), but I'll give you a quick sneak peek. Once you cross the border into GIB, driving becomes crazy. Even though you're likely not driving more than 10 minutes to your hotel, it's pretty scary. Roundabouts here (as well as in Spain) are much more difficult to navigate than in America. One even had a traffic light in the roundabout and I almost hit an old lady crossing the street because I didn't see the light. More annoyingly, there's basically no distinction between road and sidewalk. People, cars, and the worst - scooters - all share the same travelling path and that gets quite unnerving. Add to the fact that there are no street signs, the roads are narrow and curvy and no signs indicating 1-way or 2-way traffic, made driving here NUTS. At the same time, driving out Saturday night was not so bad as it was much quieter on the streets late at night.

Wow, thanks for your response. A OW rental from SVQ to La Linea is $71 man ($269 auto) for the few hours it takes to drive (it's $205 man/$298 auto to GIB), a OW from SVQ to AGP Fri-Sun is $38/day man ($53 auto) and a if I rent and return in SVQ it's $16/day man ($33 auto). Public transportation is long and expensive both from SVQ to GIB and GIB to AGP.

If there's not much besides the dolphins to do in GIB it might be worth it to fly to CDG or ORY from AGP and park the car in GIB over shabbos. Is street parking available there? If yes, it it like saying there's street parking near Times Square: there, but almost never available? That way we can spend a little longer in Paris and spend the next shabbos in London.

My pleasure. I don't know the deal with the air travel prices or much about the car rentals. If you can deal with the driving situation, it sure looks like that will be pretty cheap (assuming you can handle stick) and more convenient.

That's a fine idea - we took trains on 17 Tammuz. It was a tough day because of the fast, rainy weather, having to do laundry, missing our chance to get to the castle in Belgium we were hoping to see, but nu, it's a fast day - it's not going to be a great day. Travelling probably won't be the worst idea. I wouldn't bank on street parking. If you stay at the Eliott, the lot outside the hotel is not theirs - it's public - but they'll give you a pass for your whole stay for 12 GBP. Not bad. SamKey mentioned a free public lot, but the hotel clerk didn't know where it was. We actually passed by it on a Shabbos walk - it was near The Rock Hotel and about a 15-20 minute walk from the Jewish community and our hotel. I'm glad we paid the 12 pounds for the close lot. Even parking was hard. There was no clear indication that you were in a lot as opposed to just parking on the street (lol, not joking. You'll understand when you see it.) and the rows were so narrow it was almost impossible to move around the lot. If the lot is full, the hotel will tell you you're out of luck, but you could probably wait around for someone to pull out as it's a public lot, so how much time can someone possibly have put in the meter?

[Ergel]

Can never compare touring an old Jewish area with a tour and without a tour guide, especially when there is not much physically remaining
Like going to majdenik and not knowing the story of the Holocaust

[@Yehuda]

Can never compare touring an old Jewish area with a tour and without a tour guide, especially when there is not much physically remaining
Like going to majdenik and not knowing the story of the Holocaust

Although, it was the most expensive Jewish tour I found in Europe.

[moish]

1 Shul is just a big open room w/ no sign of ever once being a Shul.

theres a magen dovid

I think it's one thing to see the Great Synagogue of Rome when you're eating a restaurant a block away, and another thing to spend 1/2 a day to go see a Shul and pay for train tickets, taxis within Toledo and the Shul entrance fees (albeit small).

how can you compare a shul built 100 years ago to one that the rishonim likely davened in?

[@Yehuda]

theres a magen dovid
how can you compare a shul built 100 years ago to one that the rishonim likely davened in?

I didn't see the Magen David, although Ergel is right that with a tour I probably would have had it pointed out to me. (Not that I was doubting it was a Shul.)
I didn't feel the inspiration based on the assumption your saying. I dunno, it just wasn't worth the schlep for me. Maybe next time I'll do a whole Spain Jewish trip (like an older couple was doing that I met while there) and we'll be rich and hire a guide for the whole of Spain and get a lot more out of it. I'm not sure it's so worth doing alone (although IIRC you did and liked it).

[moish]

I didn't see the Magen David,

here it is. sorry for the quality, after all, it was an undercover shot. i knew about it not because i went on a tour, but rather because i prepared before i went. it gave me the proper context

[Yehoshua]

i dont know of anyone besides for @Yehuda that thinks its a good idea to skip toledo

Ok. Would you recommend going if I didn't want to shell out big bucks for a Jewish tour? Assume both shuls would be open. Also keep in mind that I'm only planning one day in MAD. If I go to Toledo that would be instead of MAD.

im not sure where you got that info from, but i did not find that to be the case even when driving stick

It looks like it's mainly flat around the Jewish community and more hilly closer to the rock. From the little Google Street View there is it looks like the side streets are incredibly narrow with very limited parking. That being said, it doesn't seem like there's another option besides driving. Is there?