Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?

[TimT]

Dont they believe it is theirs to begin with?

To begin with ? When would that be

[ChaimMoskowitz]

To begin with ? When would that be

Look I am just trying to understand both sides. The world calls it the occupied territory for a reason.

[TimT]

Look I am just trying to understand both sides. The world calls it the occupied territory for a reason.

The same “world” that wants Israel off the map entirely. No logic involved

[Ergel]

Dont they believe it is theirs to begin with?

Yes, Israel believes it has the rights to the entire Israel. As do the Palestinians. Israel has offered time and again to compromise, often to the point of shooting itself in the foot with indefensible borders. The Palestinians have turned them down time and again (see 1949, Oslo accords, Olmert offer). The Palestinians have never even acknowledged Israel's right to exist.
But yeah, there is a peace process.

[Ergel]

The Palestinian government has repeatedly incited violence so that it could use that as a bargaining chip in negotiations.
"We will stop blowing up your children on buses and in pizza stores if you give us..."

[TimT]

“EU vows to make Jerusalem capitol for palestinians”

[Yammer]

It's part of the 1949 armistice lines, over the green line, and has been on the Israeli side in every agreement. West Jerusalem is as much legally Israel as Tel Aviv.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positions_on_Jerusalem

"With the declaration of the establishment of the State of Israel and the subsequent invasion by surrounding Arab states, the UN proposal for Jerusalem never materialised. The 1949 Armistice Agreements left Jordan in control of the eastern parts of the city, while the western sector was held by Israel.[18] Each side recognised the other's de facto control of their respective sectors.[19] The Armistice Agreement, however, was considered internationally as having no legal effect on the continued validity of the provisions of the partition resolution for the internationalisation of Jerusalem.[20] Soon after Israel declared that Jerusalem was an inseparable part of the State of Israel and its eternal capital. In 1950, Jordan annexed eastern Jerusalem. Though the United Kingdom and Pakistan recognized Jordanian rule over eastern Jerusalem,[21] no other foreign country recognized either Jordanian or Israeli rule over the respective areas of the city under their control"

[Yammer]

The link said nothing of the sort. Again, provide a source.

I'm not sure about what we are disagreeing..

[ChaimMoskowitz]

The same “world” that wants Israel off the map entirely.

You believe that today?

[hachover]

That's the whole purpose of this terrorism blackmail. "Take down the metal detectors, or else we'll murder children." "Don't visit Temple Mount, or we'll start an Intifada." Besides the fact that most of these uprisings can be traced back to being orchestrated before the supposed tipping point, if you keep giving in out of fear, you perpetuate the threat of violence. Because it works.

Metal detectors- excellent example. Keeping those up has a real value, i.e. increased safety of civilians who visit the surrounding area. I would be commending Trump for standing up to threats of violence in that example. The difference here is that I don't see the same value in having a capital declared, though you and several others have given me some good arguments in favor

[Yehuda57]

Dont they believe it is theirs to begin with?

Who? The Palestinians? They've never been a sovereign state to rule over any land.

West Jerusalem is not called occupied. East is. The embassy would be in West Jerusalem.

[Yehuda57]

Metal detectors- excellent example. Keeping those up has a real value, i.e. increased safety of civilians who visit the surrounding area. I would be commending Trump for standing up to threats of violence in that example. The difference here is that I don't see the same value in having a capital declared, though you and several others have given me some good arguments in favor

I was on your side of the issue until recently too.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

West Jerusalem is not called occupied. East is. The embassy would be in West Jerusalem.

ok but my original point was Jerusalem needs to be decided. This has always been an issue in the peace process.

[Yehuda57]

ok but my original point was Jerusalem needs to be decided. This has always been an issue in the peace process.

Not. West. Jerusalem.

[Ergel]

Not. West. Jerusalem.

Why is this so hard to understand. Trump basically said this in his speech.

And the fact that it's "on the table" is indicative that the sides are not playing on the same plane

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Not. West. Jerusalem.

Trump said Jerusalem!!! That means all of Jerusalem. Aren't the three Holy sites he talked about in East Jerusalem?

[Ergel]

Trump said Jerusalem!!! That means all of Jerusalem. Aren't the three Holy sites he talked about in East Jerusalem?

Did you even listen to what he said?

We want an agreement that is a great deal for the Israelis and a great deal for the Palestinians. We are not taking a position of any final status issues including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem or the resolution of contested borders. Those questions are up to the parties involved.

[Yehuda57]

Trump said Jerusalem!!! That means all of Jerusalem. Aren't the three Holy sites he talked about in East Jerusalem?

Please watch his speech again. He said nothing of the sort.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Did you even listen to what he said?

Yes and unlike you and most here I don't have a personal stake in this. Now can you answer my question. Is the three Holy sites he talked about in East Jerusalem?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Please watch his speech again. He said nothing of the sort.

He said West Jerusalem is the capital of Israel?