Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?

[TimT]

WH officials are saying the stunt (my word) will derail the peace process. They are hoping it is only temporary. I would post a link but all I will get is #fakenews.

It won’t derail anything. Abbas knows he better listen as he doesn’t have a willing accomplice in the WH anymore.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

How about, instead of posting links, refute the claims being made here in your own words.

You want links to major individuals saying peace talks are off because of this?

[Yehuda57]

Not that. What are the pros? Where is the gain from this?

That Jerusalem is Israel's capital is an objective fact. What is the reason not to state this fact? Fear of violence. That is terrorism. Using violence to terrorize people for political gain.

If you want to stand against terror, you need to stand against all terror. If terror works for Jerusalem as capital, it works for anything and everything too. Rule #1: You don't negotiate with or give in to terrorists. It just perpetuates the cycle.

What Trump did today (knowingly or unknowingly) is stand up to Arab terror in a major way.

[TimT]

You want links to major individuals saying peace talks are off because of this?

Why don’t we wait it out and see

[Yehuda57]

You want links to major individuals saying peace talks are off because of this?

1) I said refute the claims made here in your own words, without links. For every link you share, I can link to an opposing piece. Link warfare is not the answer.
2) I'll say it again, peace talks cannot be "off" if they were never on. There have not been talks for years already.

[TimT]

The meetings will continue, CM. Have no fear

[ChaimMoskowitz]

1) I said refute the claims made here in your own words, without links. For every link you share, I can link to an opposing piece. Link warfare is not the answer.
2) I'll say it again, peace talks cannot be "off" if they were never on. There have not been talks for years already.

What claim you want me to back up.
WH claims peace talks are going on.

[TimT]

WH claims peace talks are going on.

The meetings will continue, CM. Have no fear

[Yehuda57]

What claim you want me to back up.
WH claims peace talks are going on.

Let's start with this:

And what do you mean by "be decided"? What is to be decided? The exact borders of Jerusalem? Or that Jerusalem is the capital?

Even according to the most ardent Two State Solutionist, Israel would maintain control of West Jerusalem. Israel decides where its own capital is, not any other country. Obviously, if the Arab world is protesting a sovereign nation calling a city within its legal and just borders its capital, their protest is against the very sovereignty of the nation, not the details of said country's zoning and city ordinances.

There is nothing to be decided. Trump merely signed off on an objective truth that has been stated by every politician in recent US history.
https://twitter.com/HillelNeuer/status/938529941565648897

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Let's start with this:

The other side feels all that is in play and needs to be decided. Are you asking me to find links them basically saying that?

[hachover]

That Jerusalem is Israel's capital is an objective fact. What is the reason not to state this fact? Fear of violence. That is terrorism. Using violence to terrorize people for political gain.

If you want to stand against terror, you need to stand against all terror. If terror works for Jerusalem as capital, it works for anything and everything too. Rule #1: You don't negotiate with or give in to terrorists. It just perpetuates the cycle.

What Trump did today (knowingly or unknowingly) is stand up to Arab terror in a major way.

Yes, he stood up to terrorists, but he also gave them more reasons to attack Jews and get away with it. And while the act was indeed defiant, it accomplishes nothing. No different from telling Taiwan that they are an independent nation - it doesn't change their reality one iota, but it ticks off the Chinese bigly.

[aygart]

The other side feels all that is in play and needs to be decided. Are you asking me to find links them basically saying that?

In reality it isn't. What does it help to feed this delusion?

[Yammer]

Not going to go through your list. This one sticks out because I agree with you. The problem is some have argued just the opposite that it hasn't been an issue. Any idea what they are talking about?

1) It was not part of Oslo or any other agreement.
2) All of East Jerusalem, including Temple Mount, was offered and rejected.
3) It has never been a sticking point in any negotiation.

The onus is on you to say that this was a "major issue". Feel free to provide sources and prove me wrong on any of the above.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-admits-he-rejected-2008-peace-offer-from-olmert/

[Yehuda57]

The other side feels all that is in play and needs to be decided. Are you asking me to find links them basically saying that?

Let's go through this slowly. Fact #1: Can you name another country that didn't decide on its own capital city and had its capital city decided for them by another nation? You can't.

Fact #2: Israel calls Jerusalem its capital city.

Fact #3: Even according to the UN, or any international guidelines for a two state solution, Israel maintains sovereignty over West Jerusalem.

Now we know from fact #1 that "the other side" doesn't get a say in fact #2. If you want to say that they do, you obviously don't agree on fact #3. What else could that mean other than that you want a One State Solution (Israel gets wiped off the map)?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

In reality it isn't. What does it help to feed this delusion?

Don't shoot the messenger. Did I say I believe it?

[TimT]

Chaim, gonna have to blame the evangelicals for this one

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Let's go through this slowly. Fact #1: Can you name another country that didn't decide on its own capital city and had its capital city decided for them by another nation? You can't.

Fact #2: Israel calls Jerusalem its capital city.

Fact #3: Even according to the UN, or any international guidelines for a two state solution, Israel maintains sovereignty over West Jerusalem.

Now we know from fact #1 that "the other side" doesn't get a say in fact #2. If you want to say that they do, you obviously don't agree on fact #3. What else could that mean other than that you want a One State Solution (Israel gets wiped off the map)?

Don't shoot the messenger. Did I say I believe it?

My original point was two fold. This hurts the peace process and will put Americans at risk.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Chaim, gonna have to blame the evangelicals for this one

Fine with me as I never liked them. 

[TimT]

Fine with me as I never liked them. 

That explains all the rage

[Yammer]

Yes, he stood up to terrorists, but he also gave them more reasons to attack Jews and get away with it. And while the act was indeed defiant, it accomplishes nothing. No different from telling Taiwan that they are an independent nation - it doesn't change their reality one iota, but it ticks off the Chinese bigly.

Do you suggest that we remove every single American boot/plane/ship from the middle East, so that ISIS can't claim that the reason for their jihad isn't for American to pay​ for the murders of innocent Muslims?