Author Topic: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?  (Read 40600 times)

Offline Ergel

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #140 on: December 07, 2017, 11:09:00 AM »
Yes and unlike you and most here I don't have a personal stake in this. Now can you answer my question. Is the three Holy sites he talked about in East Jerusalem?
Indeed, and Tel Aviv is not despite the fact that he mentioned it in his speech.
Again, here are his words:

Quote
We want an agreement that is a great deal for the Israelis and a great deal for the Palestinians. We are not taking a position of any final status issues including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem or the resolution of contested borders. Those questions are up to the parties involved.
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #141 on: December 07, 2017, 11:10:26 AM »
You also never responded to this
Yes, Israel believes it has the rights to the entire Israel. As do the Palestinians. Israel has offered time and again to compromise, often to the point of shooting itself in the foot with indefensible borders. The Palestinians have turned them down time and again (see 1949, Oslo accords, Olmert offer). The Palestinians have never even acknowledged Israel's right to exist.
But yeah, there is a peace process.
Or this
The Palestinian government has repeatedly incited violence so that it could use that as a bargaining chip in negotiations.
"We will stop blowing up your children on buses and in pizza stores if you give us..."
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #142 on: December 07, 2017, 11:14:18 AM »
You also never responded to this Or this
What is your question?
Can you answer my simple question?
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #143 on: December 07, 2017, 11:17:43 AM »
Again, here are his words:
He takes Jerusalem (not west) off the table by making it the capital. Then he says the sides need to decide the borders. Do you know the disadvantage that puts the other side on?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 11:23:21 AM by ChaimMoskowitz »
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Offline Yammer

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #144 on: December 07, 2017, 11:20:05 AM »
He takes Jerusalem (not west) off the table by making it the capital. Then he says the sides need to decide the borders. Do you the disadvantage that puts the other side on?
No one claimed that this was good for the PA. And as many pointed out it helps the PA with a reality check.

Offline hachover

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #145 on: December 07, 2017, 11:20:18 AM »
I was on your side of the issue until recently too.

What side are you assuming I am on?
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Offline Yammer

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #146 on: December 07, 2017, 11:41:30 AM »
It seems like we're going round and round in circles...

No one is suggesting that Trump has declared/decided what the final border agreement will be for Jerusalem.

Therefore technically there was NO change at all.

However Trump's speech was symbolic, showing Israel, PA and the world that borders aside the US recognizes Jerusalem as a part of Israel pre any negotiations.

Now as @yehuda57 and others have pointed out, Jerusalem is the conglomerate of East, West, Holy City, Temple Mount and more in which certain parts were clearly going to the Israel/PA. While others will keep being sticking points in every negotiations.

Offline davidmal

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #147 on: December 07, 2017, 11:42:31 AM »
I think this thread should be moved to Just shmooze at this point....
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Offline TimT

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #148 on: December 07, 2017, 11:45:22 AM »
I think this thread should be moved to Just shmooze at this point....
Will that help solve OP’s question sooner ?

Offline Ergel

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #149 on: December 07, 2017, 11:47:47 AM »
It seems like we're going round and round in circles...

No one is suggesting that Trump has declared/decided what the final border agreement will be for Jerusalem.

Therefore technically there was NO change at all.

However Trump's speech was symbolic, showing Israel, PA and the world that borders aside the US recognizes Jerusalem as a part of Israel pre any negotiations.

Now as @Yehuda57 and others have pointed out, Jerusalem is the conglomerate of East, West, Holy City, Temple Mount and more in which certain parts were clearly going to the Israel/PA. While others will keep being sticking points in every negotiations.

+1
The announcement clearly was to the benefit of Israel. But it's not the huge deal that the Arabs are making it out to be be.
And the rhetoric that violence is inevitable because of the announcement is sickening. Violence and rioting is not something that happens in it's own
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #150 on: December 07, 2017, 11:50:00 AM »
You believe that today?

Hamas and the PA say so explicitly.

He takes Jerusalem (not west) off the table by making it the capital. Then he says the sides need to decide the borders. Do you the disadvantage that puts the other side on?

He specifically says borders are to be decided. That is not taking it off the table, that is *literally* putting it on the table.

Offline davidmal

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #151 on: December 07, 2017, 11:51:14 AM »
Will that help solve OP’s question sooner ?
his question will be answered when there's peace in the middle east.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #152 on: December 07, 2017, 11:51:47 AM »
Now as @Yehuda57 and others have pointed out, Jerusalem is the conglomerate of East, West, Holy City, Temple Mount and more in which certain parts were clearly going to the Israel/PA. While others will keep being sticking points in every negotiations.
For some reason others will not answer this but you seem somewhat fair so I will ask you.  :)
Isn't the three holy sites Trump talked about in East Jerusalem?
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #153 on: December 07, 2017, 11:53:17 AM »
For some reason others will not answer this but you seem somewhat fair so I will ask you.  :)
Isn't the three holy sites Trump talked about in East Jerusalem?
Indeed, and Tel Aviv is not despite the fact that he mentioned it in his speech.
Again, here are his words:

You know what the word indeed means, right?
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #154 on: December 07, 2017, 11:53:52 AM »
Hamas and the PA say so explicitly.
The statement was the "world" and that is what I asked about. Stop twisting everything I ask.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #155 on: December 07, 2017, 11:54:53 AM »
You know what the word indeed means, right?
Yes but I didn't know which part of my question/statement it was referring to. Thank you for the answer.
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #156 on: December 07, 2017, 11:59:15 AM »
Either way, the peace process is a myth. I don't know how you can harm something which doesn't exist
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #157 on: December 07, 2017, 12:01:29 PM »
Either way, the peace process is a myth. I don't know how you can harm something which doesn't exist
So Trump is basically blowing smoke up everyone's you know what with his speech yesterday? His peace speech was all for show?
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Offline TimT

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #158 on: December 07, 2017, 12:03:53 PM »
You believe that today?
If you follow the UN & various other world bodies you’d notice that these countries backstab Israel all the time. (While totally ignoring real atrocities happening in their own countries or other places) So yes, even today

Offline Yammer

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Re: Do we really need the US to recognize Jerusalem as the capital?
« Reply #159 on: December 07, 2017, 12:04:46 PM »
For some reason others will not answer this but you seem somewhat fair so I will ask you.  :)
Isn't the three holy sites Trump talked about in East Jerusalem?
I specifically singled out those 2 areas Old City and Temple Mount. The reason of course is although they technically are ( literally On the Border ) in the East, Israel isn't going to let the security of Judaism holiest site under the PA. ( Although they have let the Wakf run Temple Mount since 1967 )