Jos. A Banks, Buy 1, Get 5 Free.

[MES]

Your post is full of assumptions and generalizations. I'd consider replying to them one-by-one if they were numbered, but with your paragraph structure (lack thereof actually)...

either respond to me or don't. But don't give one of those "I don't even need to respond to that because of how stupid it is" said with your nose up in the air, to steer all attention away from what I said

[AsherO]

either respond to me or don't. But don't give one of those "I don't even need to respond to that because of how stupid it is" said with your nose up in the air, to steer all attention away from what I said

No need to respond with an ad-hominem attack. Your paragraph is very dense, and thus doesn't warrant a response by nettiquette standards, I didn't say anything about your comments being stupid, and AFAIK every human's nose is 'in the air' (isn't that how we breathe?). But here are two examples since you insist:

Telling me that my Neshama will suffer a loss because I don't conform to your standards of what is questionable is simply narrow-minded. Generalizing that anyone who comes across DansDeals in a Google search result knows that it's run by a frum yid is simply wrong (burden of proof is on you).

Like with Daniel, I think we differ hashkafically, and since I don't think we'll agree, I'm not going to go in circles with you either. I'm actually in agreement about your general point, but you guys are taking it a bit too far (IMHO) and I'm trying to encourage you to think objectively.

[aussiebochur]

You forgot:
And bichlal you don't know what you're talking about...

Looks like OT has worn off

[AsherO]

You forgot:
And bichlal you don't know what you're talking about...

Looks like OT has worn off

You're entitled to your own opinion. If this back-and-forth somehow entertains you, take an extreme position and I'm sure you won't be too bored.

[MES]

No need to respond with an ad-hominem attack. Your paragraph is very dense, and thus doesn't warrant a response by nettiquette standards, I didn't say anything about your comments being stupid, and AFAIK every human's nose is 'in the air' (isn't that how we breathe?). But here are two examples since you insist:

Telling me that my Neshama will suffer a loss because I don't conform to your standards of what is questionable is simply narrow-minded. Generalizing that anyone who comes across DansDeals in a Google search result knows that it's run by a frum yid is simply wrong (burden of proof is on you).

Like with Daniel, I think we differ hashkafically, and since I don't think we'll agree, I'm not going to go in circles with you either. I'm actually in agreement about your general point, but you guys are taking it a bit too far (IMHO) and I'm trying to encourage you to think objectively.

The second point that you mention is inconsequential to my argument as a whole. You're right that someone who searches the site may not know that. But a quick sifting through the forums makes it pretty clear who we are dealing with. On top of that, I was referring to the people who already are on the site. With 9 stars I assume you've been around the boards enough to have learned how to speak yeshivish if you didn't know how to coming in.

As for the life lesson in objectivity. I appreciate the effort, though

I apologize for not being up to netiquette standards. As you can see, I don't have as many stars next to my name as you do, so I'm not as used to writing on boards.

You misquoted me. I never said your neshama would suffer a loss. I said a "potential" loss. That word is very important as in it lies this whole discussion. I never said you had to conform to MY standards, all I said was that the possibility of it causing that loss is enough to warrant the discussion of the topic and maybe a heads up.

As for the life lesson in objectivity, I sure do appreciate your concern for my well being as an intellectual person. It seems that you hold that to make sure people are objective is more important than making sure that they're not over and issurim. If that's the case then we do differ "hashkafically" and there is no reason for debate on this level.

[AsherO]

As for the life lesson in objectivity, I sure do appreciate your concern for my well being as an intellectual person. It seems that you hold that to make sure people are objective is more important than making sure that they're not over and issurim. If that's the case then we do differ "hashkafically" and there is no reason for debate on this level.

We definitely do differ hashkafically about when and how to police people's 'possible' transgressions of (our own personal subjectively-measured perceptions of) 'issurim'.

Let me add that I'll gladly concede that I put objectivity before rebuke if the effective result is that I judge people favorably when I'm in doubt.

This time I'm really done. The floor is yours, have the last word:

[eehlye]

At least in CLE store the store manager doesn't do that.  She credits you back for whatever you bring.
I once tried to bring back a wrong size coat that was $0.01 but she won't divide the price and give me half, so I had to bring back both items. 
Same went for the other way around, she just credits back whatever the receipt says.

here in chicago in two different stores they prorated the return so for the buy 1 get 2 suits free, I returned 1 and they made it 183 per suit

[dans fan]

The previous back and forth was a little disheartening. Everyone who has argued with Daniel has been able to find something in what he said to take the liberty to throw it away. Come on guys, are you going to be that closed to this? This was not meant to be an interesting debate back and forth. And the forest has been lost to the trees. What Daniel is trying to bring up is that there ARE shaylos here. BIG ones. As yidden we have an obligation to make sure people know that, even though "there may be someone out there who says it's permitted" and "halacha is subjective". So if I see someone eating a food with pig gelatin, you would say I should keep my mouth shut and let him go ahead and eat it, because there was a very prminent posek who permitted it? That may be the case if the person in question is not Orthodox, but the assumption here is that people care about their yiddeshkeit. Maybe that was the original mistake. YES YES YES, if a questionable situation arises 1000 times in a day, you better get your rav on speed dial, and there are people who work for organizations like NCSY that I know, that DO have their rav on speed dial. But the point is moot, most of the questions on this site can be answered with less than 20 questions easy. Maybe that's also too much for you guys. I hope none of your are shochtim.
I'm not saying shut down the site, but a simple AYLOR (ask your local orthodox Rabbi) next to a questionable post would seem fair. Just as much as I wouldn't invite someone into a restaurant with a questionable hechsher without letting them know, even if my rav says it's ok, so too... You get the point.
The opposition to this concept is quite alarming. Are free flights and hotel stays, really worth the potential loss accrued to ones neshama?
If your answer is Yes, then don't debate those who feel it isn't, and let the site which everyone knows is run by a frum person, be a little bit more representative of the group he associates with.

its not genaiva. and in most cases its muttar

[Daniel]

its not genaiva. and in most cases its muttar

What's not genaiva? "Most cases" - would you say "most of it is kosher" ?

[dans fan]

What's not genaiva?

buying at sale price and returning the full price one

"Most cases" - would you say "most of it is kosher" ?

i am saying in most cases its muttar , there are other isurim other than genaiva and in most cases its not a problem . although i really dont suggest it b/c you can sometimes run into a problem

[dans fan]

forgot to add that mr mes is right on a hashkafik point of view (witch is very imp, not just somthing to argue about) but in halacha he is incorrect (if he was saying that its assur)

[Daniel]

MES was not saying it's assur. He was just saying to ask an LOR. Getting a suit for free when the store clearly would not be maskim doesn't sound so pashut. Even AsherO said "I think that is wrong" - not sure if he meant assur or just ethically (whatever that means).

[dans fan]

MES was not saying it's assur. He was just saying to ask an LOR. Getting a suit for free when the store clearly would not be maskim doesn't sound so pashut. Even AsherO said "I think that is wrong" - not sure if he meant assur or just ethically (whatever that means).

i hope i answered your q in halacha it muttar in hashkafa its wrong and therefore is not allowed

[Dan]

MES was not saying it's assur. He was just saying to ask an LOR. Getting a suit for free when the store clearly would not be maskim doesn't sound so pashut. Even AsherO said "I think that is wrong" - not sure if he meant assur or just ethically (whatever that means).

Free is one thing.  $77 (like the current promo) is another IMHO.

[AsherO]

its not genaiva. and in most cases its muttar

Sources?

[Lamdan]

Mate'eh Akum is a machlokes if it's mutar. The Be'er Hagolah (חו''מ סי' שמ''ח אות ה) says that he's seen many people who were mate'eh akum and they died with no money, and many who were able to be mate'eh akum and didn't, that were able to leave over alot of money to their children.

[Lamdan]

 זה לשון הבאר הגולה חו''מ סי' שמ''ח אות ה', ''ואני כותב זאת לדורות, שראיתי רבים גדלו והעשירו מן טעות שהטעו העכו''ם, ולא הצליחו וירדו נכסיהן לטמיון ולא הניחו אחריהם ברכה, כמ''ש בספר החסידים סימן תתרע''ד, [ו]רבים אשר קדשו ה' והחזירו טעויות העכו''ם בדבר חשוב, גדלו והעשירו והצליחו והניחו יתרם לעולליהם'', עכ''ל

[skyguy918]

Mate'eh Akum is a machlokes if it's mutar. The Be'er Hagolah (חו''מ סי' שמ''ח אות ה) says that he's seen many people who were mate'eh akum and they died with no money, and many who were able to be mate'eh akum and didn't, that were able to leave over alot of money to their children.

זה לשון הבאר הגולה חו''מ סי' שמ''ח אות ה', ''ואני כותב זאת לדורות, שראיתי רבים גדלו והעשירו מן טעות שהטעו העכו''ם, ולא הצליחו וירדו נכסיהן לטמיון ולא הניחו אחריהם ברכה, כמ''ש בספר החסידים סימן תתרע''ד, [ו]רבים אשר קדשו ה' והחזירו טעויות העכו''ם בדבר חשוב, גדלו והעשירו והצליחו והניחו יתרם לעולליהם'', עכ''ל

Um.. just going off the quote you posted it looks like he didn't say some people were successful and some weren't. He says that of those that were mat'eh akum, many that kept it ended up with nothing, and many that returned it saw much brocha.

Sounds pretty clear that he's warning against keeping ta'us akum, but he doesn't say explicitly that it's assur.

[Lamdan]

Um.. just going off the quote you posted it looks like he didn't say some people were successful and some weren't. He says that of those that were mat'eh akum, many that kept it ended up with nothing, and many that returned it saw much brocha.

Sounds pretty clear that he's warning against keeping ta'us akum, but he doesn't say explicitly that it's assur.

Those that left over for their kids, returned a TA'US Akum, those that didn't leave over were MAT'EH Akum.

[skyguy918]

Either way the takeaway here would seem to be that there is no issur of profiting from a goy's mistake but you're gonna lose it all in the end anyway. And additionally, if you realize after the fact that you profited from a goy's mistake there's no chiyuv to return it, but if you do you'll see brocha in the end.